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Friendly Reminder - BAND PLANS, folks

Discussion in 'General Announcements' started by K0OKS, Oct 7, 2017.

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  1. K0OKS

    K0OKS Ham Member QRZ Page

    Nobody is stubborn or insistent here. I shall continue to abide by the most popular bandplan handed out to pretty much every US amateur by the ARRL. You may continue to ignore it if you'd like. Pretending the most popular bandplan which has had SSTV frequencies on it for decades doesn't exist won't change its existence. Carry on, then.
     
  2. KK5JY

    KK5JY Ham Member QRZ Page

    Since when? Most popular? Every ham? Feeling factually challenged today? I guess tomorrow is Friday...

    And this kind of presumptuousness is why you are having a problem in the first place.
     
  3. K0OKS

    K0OKS Ham Member QRZ Page

    Please point out another bandplan that more than a handfull of people in the US are using. The bandplan is being handed out to most new Amateurs, at least here in St. Louis.

    The Radio Society of Great Britain bandplan has the same frequencies for SSTV, for decades. It is used by nearly all of ITU 1.

    I have no problem in the first place. The thread was to remind people who DO pay attention to the ARRL bandplan, and who do NOT believe that the only rules that count are those that come from the gubment, to keep an eye out for those frequencies.

    If you do not ignore the bandplan then why do you repeatedly advocate doing so by saying the bandplan is useless and to be ignored? Self-contradiction something fun, or do you actually follow the bandplan?
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2017
  4. KK5JY

    KK5JY Ham Member QRZ Page

    I would love to see the numbers on that...
    I'm not. You're completely misreading what I am saying. I'm not telling anybody to clobber your QSOs. I'm not clobbering your QSOs. I'm not saying that it's OK for people to clobber your QSOs. If you have a QSO going on a frequency, and somebody fires up next to you and overlaps your existing QSO, that's bad behavior on their part, and I'm not endorsing that. For that matter, I'm not even trying to clobber your post, but for some reason we have our terminology crossed or something... :oops:

    QRM = bad. You and I agree on that. I also liked several other things you listed on your profile page, but that's not helpful here. :cool:

    For the 10th time, all I'm saying is that no frequencies are exclusive. Not to users, and not to modes (with the exception of some FCC-mandated CW-only slivers). And asking people to treat them as such is inappropriate. Asking people not to clobber you with splatter is appropriate, and that appeared to be part of your OP. But there's a difference between "don't clobber my QSOs" and "keep this channel clear if you aren't doing SSTV." If I read correctly, you are advocating the latter, and that's just not OK.
     
    N2EY likes this.
  5. K0OKS

    K0OKS Ham Member QRZ Page

    Evading the question? The burden of proof is on you. You have repeatedly said bandplans are a dime a dozen. I call your bluff and now you expect me to do your homework? Googling for bandplans finds the ARRL bandplan and the Radio Society of Great Britain's bandplan. Both indicate the same frequencies are to be used for SSTV. None of these dime a dozen alternate bandplans are listed on the first few pages (because Google, like me, believe nobody uses them). Everything I found just re-listed the ARRL bandplan, and attributed it as such.

    Yes, we have repeatedly agreed on this.

    Likewise, but not really part of this. Though Loop on Ground looks pretty cool... and, wow! lots of great info on your website.

    For the 10th time we have agreed on this over and over. No need to repeat it.

    The bandplans in the US and Great Britain are advocating just that. The bandplans are asking people to avoid those frequencies except for SSTV. Calling out those frequencies is not some chance occurrence. They are saying that if you want to operate SSTV you should do it on those frequencies, which also implies that if you want to operate SSB you should avoid those frequencies. It's not saying you CAN'T use those frequencies. It is saying a considerate operator should *avoid* using them. A rude operator would say "Nobody has a right to a frequency and I am going to operate SSB here because I *can*." A gentleman would say, "Gee, if I were operating SSTV I sure would want to keep it on the normal frequency so maybe I will call CQ on 14.234 rather than 14.229." That is all; it's simple civility. Be considerate of other users, but feel free to use the frequency should you need to (because the rest of the band is full or QRMed, or whatever).

    This is NOT the same as saying this frequency is for the *exclusive* use of SSTV. The widely accepted bandplans are saying that other users should *avoid* that frequency *if possible* in order to facilitate SSTV remaining in a predictable location. I don't think anyone wants SSTV spread around the phone band, as it is really annoying QRM if you are not participating.

    Are you advocating operating on 14.230 (for example) willy-nilly just because you can? Or would you encourage people try to keep your QSOs in a different part of the band (again, if possible)? It's really a lot like my earlier example of driving 45 in the left lane of a multi-lane highway. You *can* do it, but it is rude, and everyone knows it's rude.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2017
  6. W7UUU

    W7UUU QRZ Lifetime Member #133 Life Member Platinum Subscriber QRZ Page

    I like pie :)

    Dave
    W7UUU
     
  7. K0OKS

    K0OKS Ham Member QRZ Page

    But what kind of pie :eek:

    I like all kinds.
     
  8. W7UUU

    W7UUU QRZ Lifetime Member #133 Life Member Platinum Subscriber QRZ Page

    In truth, I've not had pie in quite a few years. Never been into sweets actually. I count that as a good thing - my first cavity was at age 47 and I attribute a life-long non interest in sweets to that. But - if I had to pick one, it would be hands down blackberry pie a-la-mode, warmed before the ice cream - made from berries from my own pickings. Yessir - I've had that a few times and it was a treat indeed.

    I'm just glad I'm not drawn to stuff like that - I'd be the size of a barn I'm sure :) I try to keep fit and healthy. Knock on wood.

    :)

    Dave
    W7UUU
     
    NL7W likes this.
  9. WR2E

    WR2E Ham Member QRZ Page

    It was the best of times, it was the worst of times...
     
  10. KK5JY

    KK5JY Ham Member QRZ Page

    Not at all. You said ARRL was the most-used band plan. I said I would like to see numbers supporting that. You brought it up. Moving on...
    Let's look at what ARRL says about band plans:

    A band plan refers to a voluntary division of a band to avoid interference between incompatible modes. ...

    Significant regional variations in both current band utilization and the intensity and frequency distribution of noise sources preclude one plan that is suitable for all parts of the country. These variations will require many regional frequency coordinators to maintain band plans that differ in some respects from any national plan. As with all band plans, locally coordinated plans always take precedence over any general recommendations such as a national band plan.

    Note that even ARRL acknowledges that there are many different plans, recommended by different people for different reasons, and that such variation is both inevitable and necessary.
    You're getting closer. What you just described is a typical watering hole. Several modes do that, and there's nothing wrong with that. That said, operation contrary to the band plan isn't a problem unless it generates intentional QRM.
    How many times do I have to answer this? No. By the same token, you can't just expect that frequency to always be available for SSTV, just because it's on the band plan.

    Let's back up a second. Your original post:
    You are very correct that people running SSB should make sure they are not splattering into someone else's QSO. The "overlap" problem is particularly common with SSB ops.

    The reason I even commented on this to start with is that there are no frequencies allocated for SSTV. There are recommended frequencies in ARRL's band plan. Apples and oranges. When I read your OP it makes it sound like the freqs you mentioned were somehow reserved, and that is not just untrue, it's contrary to the CFR:

    47 CFR 97.101(b): Each station licensee and each control operator must cooperate in selecting transmitting channels and in making the most effective use of the amateur service frequencies. No frequency will be assigned for the exclusive use of any station.

    FCC says we are required to cooperate, but prohibits us from taking that so far as to attempt to allocate "exclusive" frequencies beyond those mandated elsewhere in Part 97.

    Next:
    Again, this makes it sound like you are trying to "hold" a frequency open for SSTV. Transmitting on an otherwise clear frequency where others are only monitoring is not interference, and there's nothing wrong with doing so.
     
    N2EY likes this.

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