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MEANINGFUL ENTRY-LEVEL LICENSE PRIVILEGES

Discussion in 'Amateur Radio News' started by AA7BQ, Nov 5, 2005.

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  1. kd4mxe

    kd4mxe QRZ Member QRZ Page

    KD4MXE,
    Hey Bill,
    You are "AOK",--you are right, each side could view
    the "other side" as a "complainer" just because they
    take the opposite view.
    Hey,--I hope to work you sometime when you get on
    HF,--at least you have the courage to vent your opinions
    even though they may be different than mine.

                                73, Rene, K1MVP[/QUOTE]
    k1mvp- sir I see where you are in to Rebuilding old Radios, thats what I like to do to , that is fun to do I have a heath Kit (Hw-12)and I want to Build a power supply for it do not Have one , the ac Power supply is a Hp-23 or 20 do you have any way to get the number of the power transformer that they use for it if you do have any info on this ,I would welcome anything you could send my way ,73 good luck Bill
     
  2. K1MVP

    K1MVP Guest

    k1mvp- sir I see where you are in to Rebuilding old Radios, thats what I like to do to , that is fun to do I have a heath Kit (Hw-12)and I want to Build a power supply for it do not Have one , the ac Power supply is a Hp-23 or 20 do you have any way to get the number of the power transformer that  they use for it if you do have any info on this ,I would welcome anything you could send my way ,73 good luck Bill[/quote]
    Bill,
    Do you have the manual for the HP-23?
    If not, I can send you a copy.
    Is your e-mail address  and "snail mail" address ok on
    QRZ call lookup?
                                73, K1MVP
     
  3. kd4mxe

    kd4mxe QRZ Member QRZ Page

    Bill,
    Do you have the manual for the HP-23?
    If not, I can send you a copy.
    Is your e-mail address  and "snail mail" address ok on
    QRZ call lookup?
                                73, K1MVP[/QUOTE]
    k1mvp- thanks for the Reply our email Has changed we are still haveing trouble with it But you can try (Fuller@ entercomp.com) it should come thru , and hope to talk to you one day on H f thanks 73 Bill
     
  4. K1MVP

    K1MVP Guest

    Keith,--VA3KSF/KB1SF
    I was just reading an article on "ARRL NEWS" on the
    ARRL website, by W3IZ,--titled "Show Them the Magic".
    If you get a chance, look it up on their website and let
    me know what you think.

    You and I have discussed this issue, of the so called
    "magic" in ham radio that really no longer exists, and
    yet they continue to "insist" that it DOES.

    After reading the article,--I thought it was from 1965
    or there-abouts,--not 2005.
    Man, talk about "denial", or "living in the past", or
    what planet are they living on?

                           73, Rene, K1MVP

    P.S., the article, IMO is written for "kids", not for
    an "adult population",--more of the "dumbed
    down" stuff.--It`s no wonder HR is in a "mess".
     
  5. kd4mxe

    kd4mxe QRZ Member QRZ Page

    k1mvp -sir got your e-mail , thanks For the offer But what if you ever need one , then you would have to Hunt one up,But if you dont think you need it that,s ok to , I will pay all cost to you, I could use the schematic tho for the power supply, any way is ok with me, 73 Bill
     
  6. K1MVP

    K1MVP Guest

    Ok Bill,
    Will mail you a copy of the HP-23 manual,--as far as
    the transformer,--I can ship that too, as I am sure
    I will have no need for it.
    If your mailing address is ok on qrz callsign lookup
    in Alabama,--I will ship sometime this week.
    You can have both,--the manual and the transformer,
    Just send me five bucks to cover the shipping cost,
    if you want.
                            73, Rene, K1MVP
     
  7. kd4mxe

    kd4mxe QRZ Member QRZ Page

    k1mvp - sir every thing is good to go on this end , my a ,d , on qrz is correct so thanks ,when I get the paper work I will get me a Box collect all Parts and start to Build it, 73 and thanks Rene , 73 Bill
     
  8. K1MVP

    K1MVP Guest

    Keith,--VA3KSF/KB1SF
    Relavant to my posting as to the ARRL news article,
    "show them the magic", by W3IZ--I noticed it is no
    longer there,(looks like it was deleted)--So you will
    not find it if you were to check it out now.
    Hmmm,--I wonder why?
                                73, K1MVP
     
  9. N2EY

    N2EY Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    I have seen these dire predictions, but not the hard data to back them up.

    For example, how do we know the median age is in the mid-to-late 50s? FCC license data doesn't show everyone's birthdate. Polls and surveys may not be very accurate unless they get a representative sample. Etc.

    Look around at a hamfest or club meeting and see all the greybeards - because the young folks are working, raising families, or just trying to keep up. Most families I know today do not consist of a stay-at-home mom and a dad who has evenings free.

    On top of that, what does the median age really measure? Suppose half are older than 55 and half younger. Someone 54 is in the "young half" just as much as someone 14. Etc.

    When I was a new ham in 1967, it seemed to me that most hams were "old guys" - and they were, to a 13 year old!

    Also consider that the population of the USA is getting older, too. People are living longer and having fewer kids.

    An age-distribution graph is much more informative than a single number. But we don't have reliable data.

    "No Theory International" already exists, but under a different name.

    Take a good look at the second NCVEC petition that was filed about a year ago. Better yet, read the paper "Amateur Radio in the 21st Century" which can be found by googling.

    Besides dumping the code test, NCVEC proposed a new "Communicator" license class. They
    proposed (I'm not making this up):

    - Limited HF and VHF priviliges, multiple bands and modes.

    - No homebrewing - approved manufactured gear only.

    - Maximum voltage in the rig must not exceed 30 volts.

    - 20 question test that includes very little theory, safety, or regulations. Focus would be on extremely basic stuff like operating procedures.

    And they were serious!

    --

    IMHO, the way to interest young people is not to reduce the requirements. The kind of people we want to attract are those who like a challenge, not a giveaway.

    37 years ago, when I became a ham, amateur radio was a niche sort of thing. It still is, and always will be, because most people are not that interested in "radio for its own sake", which is what amateur radio is really all about.

    What needs to be done is to find those individuals who *are* interested in "radio for its own sake", and help them get licensed and on the air.


    73 de Jim, N2EY
     
  10. VA3KSF

    VA3KSF Ham Member QRZ Page

    Once again, Jim, you've made an interesting, thought-provoking post.

    And I must admit that I, too, could very well be falling into the same "generalization" trap I've accused others of doing by not conducting some further sampling and analysis!

    Maybe a better (more reliable?) indicator of our hobby's health is to simply listen on the bands.  Maybe it's just me, but they seem awfully dead lately.  

    But, even using THAT medium as a yardstick, I well realize we are also nearing the bottom of the sunspot cycle.  And the last time that happened (in the mid 90s), I was up to my armpits in trying to get AMSAT's Phase 3-D satellite funded, built and launched.  Neededless to say, at that point in my life I had very little (if any) time for operating.  

    Like you, I very much wish I had some better suggestions on how to find the young people who are "interested in radio for its own sake" and then also get them interested in Ham Radio.  They seem to be a vanishing breed, and the process appears now to be much like squeezing blood out of a turnip.  

    However, I really don't believe that reducing (or increasing) the test requirements is a major factor in that particular problem.  The new blood just doesn't seem to be there.

    Again, falling back on my daughter's example (my "sample size of one") it seems like there are too many other, far more interesting "electronic-type" pursuits out there today to interest such people than there were when you and I first got our licenses.  

    And whether we deserve the label or or not, the reality I've learned, at least according to my daughter (and her friends...both male and female) is that what we do remains "quaint, old, and terribly b-o-r-i-n-g".


    73,

    Keith
    VA3KSF / KB1SF
     
  11. VA3KSF

    VA3KSF Ham Member QRZ Page

    Good question, Rene!  I haven't the foggiest idea of why this may be so.  

    All I can suggest is that many other "news-type" Web sites only keep an active news article archive of 7 days or so an then the story hits the "bit bucket".

    73,

    Keith
    VA3KSF / KB1SF
     
  12. NC5S

    NC5S Ham Member QRZ Page

    http://www.arrl.org/news/features/2005/11/17/1/


    It's still there
     
  13. N2EY

    N2EY Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    Thanks!

    Which is tough to do because the data isn't really out there.

    Exactly!

    I don't know if they're a vanishing breed or not.

    I went to an all-boys high school (class of 1972) in the suburbs of Philadelphia. There were over 2500 boys in the school - my graduating class was well over 600. The school emphasized math and science in the curriculum and was one of the better schools in that time.

    Yet in my 4 years there, the number of licensed hams never exceeded about a half-dozen. Less than 1 in 400 students was a ham, and today I know of only two who are still licensed. And I'm one of the two!

    It's there, but we have to look for it. I have a piece
    written by a ham who has attacked the problem
    head-on - I thought I posted it here. If not, I will
    do so.

    Not really. We had telephones then - they just had
    wires attached. CB was the rage when I was in high school - many more of my classmates were cbers than
    hams. None of them stayed with it long, though.

    In my HS days the techno kids worked on cars, stereos and musical instrument/PA amplifiers. I still remember the afternoon in 1970 or 71 when a friend and I pulled the head off the engine of his '62 Nova, wirebrushed off the carbon, and put on a rebuilt head, all new gaskets, etc. A lot of dirty work but we had the car running again before the sun went down. How many 16-17 year olds you know would do that today?


    I heard the same thing 37 years ago from my peers.
    Niche activities are like that.

    "To those who understand, no explanation is necessary. To those who don't understand, no explanation is possible."

    The key to all of it, I say, is the concept of "radio for its own sake". Not radio as an RF internet, or a cell-phone replacement, or as another form of modem. But radio
    as an end in itself.

    Think about these questions:

    Why do people run, bike, or ride horses for fun, when there are much faster and more modern ways of getting from A to B, or of getting exercise?

    Why do people spend enormous sums on sailboats, and learn all the skills needed to sail them, when powerboats are easier, faster and cheaper?

    Why do all the work to climb a mountain like Mount Washington when you can just drive to the top?

    Why do people have vegetable gardens, or go fishing, when the supermarkets are full of good food that costs less?

    Why do people put lots of time, effort, and expense into learning to play musical instruments for fun, more than 100 years after the invention of the phonograph? Particularly when they know they will *never* be as good musicians as the professionals?

    Most people don't do any of the above things. Those who do, understand why. Same for "radio for its own sake".

    73 de Jim, N2EY
     
  14. W0NWA

    W0NWA XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    This is the reason I dumped arrl like a Hot patato!! once they started toying with
    the code and talk of dropping Novice and Advanced...
     
  15. K1MVP

    K1MVP Guest

    N2EY, VA3KSF,
    Just read your last interchange as to why ham radio
    does not, or cannot attract new individuals.
    While it does make for interesting or amusing
    reading, I still think both of you are making more
    of it than is really "there".

    Keith,--you already know my "opinions" or as you said
    before,--my "feelings" on this subject.
    Both of you want so called "hard data", or so Keith
    said, such as that from a "survey" or "poll",--personal
    experience seems to mean little.
    .
    Well the facts ARE, we are NOT attracting newcomers
    as was true back 35 to 40 years ago, and most will
    agree with that.

    Now the question is WHY?--Everybody and their
    brother has an "opinion" on why.

    The ARRL and "others" will say it`s the hams of today
    who are not "selling" ham radio to the general public,
    etc, etc.

    Here is my "take" on it,--years ago "we" the average
    ham did not "sell" ham radio to the average "joe smoe".
    Ham radio sold itself.--There was no internet, no
    cheap cell phones, ipods, etc, etc, so amateur radio
    did have a bit of "magic" or "lure" to it.

    Another appeal,--was the fact that ham radio also
    presented a bit of a "challenge" and "fun" in that
    it offered an outlet for a "hands on" type of individual.

    So here we are now, in 2005,--with all these other
    "computer options", internet, chat rooms, cell phones,
    etc, etc,--so much for the "lure" of DX, etc,etc.

    Now,--we have "high tech rice boxes", with surface
    mount technology, etc, --and who can work or fix
    these new boxes?--not your average person for sure,
    --so much for the "hands on" attraction.

    NOW, with all these changes,--in this day and age,
    with the "new" work ethic, or "lack of work ethic" by
    many, who wants to actually "work" for a ticket such
    as  generations of years ago did.
    And you say we need to find those individuals interested
    in "radio for its own sake",--GOOD LUCK.

    Now I will site an experience,(I know Keith,--it does not count) that I had back around 1990, when my oldest
    son was a senior in high school.
    I  gave a talk on ham radio to his physics class,--
    I brought some homebrew qrp equipment and had a
    good video, and after the class,--I asked if anyone
    had any questions,--and guess what,-- not a one,from
    a class of about 30 to 35 kids.

    My own son,--now a EE with Raytheon, has never had
    any interest, and actually believes it`s "antiquated".
    He chuckles when he see`s me on the air.

    Now this was about 15 years ago, and do you know
    what the physics teacher told me,--he said "you have
    catch the kids much earlier now, than when we were
    young,--like at the jr. high level".
    Well guess what,--I also gave a "show and tell" at
    junior high school, and --still there was little, if any
    interest.

    And the ARRL is STILL insisting in 2005 that you can
    attract people to the so called "magic" of ham radio,
    if you look up their recent article on the ARRL news
    page,--Incredible,--they MUST be living on a different
    planet than this one.

                               73, K1MVP

    P.S, your analogy of people biking, or sailing, "might"
         be compared to a few of us "oldtimers" who
         like to refurbish old equipment, or build for the
         "fun" of it,--Most newcomers are not interested
         in the older modes and equipment, as it means
         little or nothing to them.
     
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