Ham Talk Live! Episode 199 - State of the Hobby Survey

We don't provide a SERVICE. We are part of a SERVICE.

SERVICE is the group, not the activity within the group.

Our activities within the SERVICE are defined in the Part 97 mission statement.

Saying we are 'artists' is just as silly as saying 'it's a hobby'.

Play with words all you want. BUT--the telecom (and related services) lawyers, for example, will see great 'play' in using our words against us, IMO. They will say that most US hams' understanding of the amateur radio service is limited to memorization of phrases in preparation for license exams.

 

Part 97.1 says it all. Stamp collecting and other hobbies do not require a proven mastery of knowledge or skills, licensing, national and international regulation, nor the allocation and use of publicly owned resources. Amateur Radio does, and Amateur Radio licenses, like those of all other radio services, are issued in the public interest, convenience, and necessity.

This is because it was understood many years ago that society would benefit by setting forth rules, defining standards, and allocating frequency spectrum for the purpose of promoting technical investigations into wireless communication systems and technologies by duly authorized individuals having non-pecuniary interests in advancing the state of the radio art.

There are many examples of where society has been served by Amateur Radio. How many radio companies can you think of that were started by hams, produced equipment for hams, and later went on to produce communications hardware for commercial and military applications?

Amateurs pioneered Slow-Scan Television technology beginning in the 1950s. By the late 1970s, Clarence Munsey, K6IV, of Robot Research, Inc. wrote a patent for a video scan converter that not only saw use by Amateurs in the form of the Robot Model 400 scan converter, but also utilized the same technology in later products manufactured by the same company for commercial phone-line video applications.

Speaking of SSTV, the first time a video image was ever transmitted from the Earth to a manned spacecraft was during the STS-51F Challenger mission with astronaut Tony England, W0ORE serving as the control operator. Apparently, no one had ever thought a video uplink would be beneficial to space shuttle crew until Amateurs showed NASA that such a capability had real value.

And speaking of space, the whole concept of microsatellites that have grown so popular today was originally developed by a little Amateur Radio organization known as AMSAT in the 1980s.

Today, the ARISS program connects students around the globe to astronauts living on the International Space Station through the Amateur Radio equipment carried on-board the station, thereby fostering interest in science, technology, engineering, and mathematics.

The subject of Space Weather has been gaining interest in institutions of higher learning, and many governments and private businesses have reportedly been spending sizable amounts of money and energy performing research into the subject. Today, Amateur Radio organizations such as TAPR and HamSCI are actively contributing to this research.

Walk into a modern electronics or telecommunications company, and if you don't find at least several "hams" playing active roles in the company, you might find an ARRL Handbook, an ARRL Antenna Book, or some other antenna book authored by an Amateur (like Dr. John Kraus, W8JK, for example) on one of their bookshelves. In fact, I, personally, have been recruited to work as a consultant to several professional engineers specifically because of the demonstrated RF knowledge and expertise I gained through my Amateur Radio work.

Just a hobby? Sure, hobbyists contribute to society, too. Open-Source software developers being a prime example. But hobbyists don't have a clearly defined basis and purpose like we do. We are granted access to vast amounts of spectrum FREE OF CHARGE and can place transmitters of our own design on the air without any prior FCC Certification because we all demonstrated a mastery of radio electronics and FCC Rules and Regulations to earn our licenses, and because there is an understanding that with Amateur Radio activity comes an increased reservoir of trained radio operators, technicians, and electronics experts, advancement in both communication and technical phases of the radio art, communication systems that can work off-the-grid, and international goodwill that are beneficial to everyone, everywhere, that are not effectively realized through any other means.


73 de John, KD2BD

 

Take a breath Chip.

I'm pretty sure most people realized my comment was satirical.

Everyone knows after the pending zombie apocalypse that ham radio will be the primary means of communication.

(BTW...you are obviously passionate about this. We are just amateurs here, so perhaps you should take this up with the ARRL who toss around the word 'hobby' like a rag doll.)

 

The ARRL is not the only one who calls it a hobby. 100 years of historical evidence in magazines, and virtually everyone on earth considers it a hobby. Including some of the regulators who use the word right in the definition.

Yes, it is a hobby. A hobby that includes all of the things that you and Chip talk about. None of those things preclude amateur radio from being a hobby, they are just a subset of our large hobby.

 

This post is an astonishingly miserable example of how amateurs (whether or not they enjoy a hobby) should not conduct a discussion, IMHO. Usually, if I can't find something nice to say, I don't say anything, but this....
I returned to ham radio a year ago, and have found it full of the best of humanity: expert, helpful, supportive, cheerful, and generous to a fault. This is truly the treasure of the pursuit of amateur radio. There is so much to recommend radio to a new generation of hams and so ensure amateur radio's future.
When it's all done, maybe its more important to have built with collaboration (doesn't always mean total agreement), rather than getting bragging rights as to who and how many fellow hams have been belittled, berated, and otherwise put down. This latter choice seems here more fashionable than useful?
Didn't this all start with a Survey, with much content to discuss? Surveys are difficult, time-consuming but one of the few ways we have to measure opinion.
“If you can not measure it, you can not improve it.” (Lord Kelvin, also known as William Thompson).
Improvement is good.

 

There is a difference between being 'alarmist'-- and seeing how reality plays out.

I am many things, but alarmist is not one of them.

73
Chip W1YW

 

You are confusing facts with the fact --that the facts-- they are being presented.

Our opinions on Part 97 are not Part 97. That is exactly the point: our ignorance (for many) on this is astonishing and most unfortunate, and it will likely get us into trouble on allocations in this decade.

Part 97 defines the amateur radio service, in which many of us partake in 'hobbyist' activities as part of being 'skilled in the art'.

Simple.

Take a stab at sugar coating if you wish, but the amateur radio service in the US is simply not a hobby.

Again, see post #80 if you desire a clear explanation--or re write it in your own words.

Don't shoot the messenger.

73
Chip W1YW

 

We attain (at least many do) our skills as a 'reservoir of trained operators', via our hobbyist activities.

Many people here are confusing the activities with the pursuit.

The pursuit is via a service, and the activities are a means to help meet the mission statement of the service.

For many, those activities are hobbyist in nature, but meet the need for those ' skilled in the art' as defined in the mission statement.

73
Chip W1YW

 

This thread


C'mon QRZ. Maybe discuss how to make the survey more scientifically rigorous. Hams are a smart people, there ought to be one of us who has actually designed academic surveys with rigor that can help.

Even as it is it, SOTH survey provides a trove of data that is so far unprecedented. Even the IARU and ARRL got nothing on N8RMA. Maybe they've done surveys in the past but either the data is woefully undershared, or is held private.

But 10 straight pages of pedantry over hobby vs. service is just...why?

 

Why? (as if the answer wasn't clearly proffered already...)

Because a public stab at consensus that Part 97 is a HOBBY is not only factually in error, but will be used as EXHIBIT evidence, in the future ,that re-allocation of Part 97 spectrum is justified for failure to understand the privilege of a Part 97 license, and the mission of the service of same.

That is not an opinion. It is an educated assessment of the path we face in the next 5 years. China(PRC)--the world's second most innovative telecommunications nation--has already usurped ham radio spectrum in their country. It's happening. HOBBY = LOSS.

If you had r-e-a-d the thread you will realize, IMO, that by repeating the 'pedantry' statement, your sole intent is to ridicule me. I assert that I do not accept your insult, and provide the following admonishment and sound advice:

Go read, and see why I am stating and elicidating that Part 97 is a service, not a 'hobby'; and the role of 'hobby' within Part 97. If, upon doing so, you have any questions or facts to add--or EDUCATED OPINIONS based on reading same--I am sure we would all be delighted to discuss, hone, and even modify the wording of reality.

In the meantime, keep your insults elsewhere, and many thanks.

73
Chip W1YW

 

Chip - The excess in pedantry on this thread is not directed to you - it's directed to everybody. You're quoting Part 97, others are quoting Merriam-Webster. I am generally poking at the collective QRZ brain that tends to make ham radio feel so curmudgeony and unfun. You brought up a fair point. Then K7JEM et. al. argued against that point. And then it literally has not ended after 100 messages, and the entire discussion is not relevant to the topic of the thread. This thread was an introduction of Dustin's survey for this year, so one would assume the discussion would be about the survey, not 100 posts triggered by the title of the survey.

I sifted through this thread for good ideas, criticism, and insights. I put every post it into Word so I could actually read it coherently. I've read every single message, and I've written a few versions of this post, off and on over the last 12 hours, and I've not found a single useful thing helpful to this survey besides renaming it to something that doesn't call it a hobby, a just whole lot of actual bottom-of-the-barrel insults. (Ironically I was the one who created the graphic for my blog, since I agree with Bonnie all the way back pg. 2, and by extension I agree with Chip).

I work with Dustin, and Neil, and all together we're doing work for the future of amateur radio. The data presented in the survey is imperative to our goals, and it's also imperative to the mission of amateur radio (specifically 47 CFR § 97.1(d)). Amateur radio's existential crisis is not what we call ourselves (as you exemplified with China's situation and "hobby=loss"), it's that amateur radio is practiced by predominantly aged persons, leaving us to question, will amateur radio even exist in 20 years? Who's joining ham radio to replace SKs? What is the SK rate vs new licensee rate? Or is there no problem here? Has this age chart always looked like this since the amateur radio began? Is ham radio always and forever generally an older person's...curiosity? (Trying to think of a better description than hobby...)



Nobody has comprehensive on age of radio amateurs until N8RMA's survey, which does it's very best on reducing bias in an online-only environment. In fact it underrepresents youth, even though it was shared all over places where young people exist in the hobby - YARC, YACHT, YOTA, BARC JR, many facebook groups, youtube channels, blogs, ARRL scholarship winners, colleges, youth email lists, discords, groupmes, whatsapp and telegram ham radio groups, scout leaders, school radio clubs, and so on. I know for a fact it's skewed because I help manage a discord server of 1,300 hams predominately under the age of 25, while the survey only captured 116 entries from ages 25 and lower. There's obviously a lot of work to be done there, and I feel someone on this forum might be able and willing to help.

I'm led to believe the ARRL and IARU have a lot of data on this, but I have been unable to locate it after some 200 hours of searching, asking around, networking, even thinking about doing FOIA requests to the FCC and SSN agencies, etc. I just haven't barked up the right tree, yet.

My point is, this survey is important. We can all do the amateur service a huge favor if we didn't denigrate it with superficial pedantry (from everybody) and instead critique it intelligently and expand the base of knowledge constructively with our collective curiosity to know more about our execution of 47 CFR Part 97, with focus on 47 CFR § 97.1(d).

Is that too much to ask QRZ?

 

Then we all reject your assertion of pedantry.

WHO WE ARE is an important question to address and answer.

Your way of addressing it is to dig out old internet MEMES (gosh--a second one where you pretend I am a recalcitrant child /horse needing physical abuse) --and force-fit them to the situation. In doing so you took an important discussion, from A to Z, and fused it into A to B, thereby dissing those who may continue to desire to understand, and refine the words that 'informalize' Part 97.

N8RMA's survey is interesting and important. (If you had READ, you would see I already said that.)In particular it highlights how POORLY MOST US hams understand the nature and definition of Part 97.

WE do NOT define who we are. PART 97 DEFINES who we are. There is no basis for INTERPRETATION of the Part 97 mission.

To quote the STar Trek movie :'how do you FEEL'?
A: WRONG QUESTION.

It doesn't matter how we FEEL. It doesn't matter if we mostly believe in the tooth fairy either.

WHO WE ARE 'is' licensees in a service where hobby-like activities are employed to execute, in part, our Part 97 mission on maintaining a 'pool of operators' skilled in the art.

It doesn't matter that we (at least some to most) prefer 'hobby' as the word, because some feel 'amateur ' is a put-down. It is 'amateur' to distinguish it from 'professional'--as in paid or compensated.

Hobby means 'unlicensed'. NOT 'amateur' with a spit-shine.

Go read the important historical facts--ON THIS THREAD-- and the appropriate clarification of WHO WE ARE vis a vis Part 97. THAT is what some of your fellow radio amateurs provided you on this thread.


Don't reduce the value of those trying to help you to two aggressive and violent MEMES.

Got it?

No more violence as allusions please.

73
Chip W1YW

 

The age issue is highly misleading.

In the US, a vast majority of the licensed radio amateurs are UNDER 50. It is not, per se, an AGED demographic of LICENSEES.

The problem is that MORE THAN HALF of those licensees are NOT 'on the air'. Most of those NEVER GET ON THE AIR.

And THAT--THAT-- is the problem.

The OTA hams are obviously old, like me, for the most part.

But from a Part 97 issue, the NEVER ON THE AIR hams are what is causing the (likely)crisis in ham radio in the US. Their inactivity indicates failure of Part 97 mission.

To what extent? You tell me. I think it is at 'crisis' level.

Crisis= allocation of spectrum=> loss.

 

Chip,

I want to meet you in real life or on the air. I almost had the chance at Hamcation/Florida Contest Dinner. It's difficult to talk to your online persona. I'm a 20-something and I spent most of my upbringing on the internet communicating in memes. But I understand your point of view, and I don't need it reiterated dozens of times. However, my data, this survey, and my experiences at ham radio conventions all over the world over the last 10 years have never come to the conclusion that a majority of US hams are under age 50. Perhaps that is the case in Europe, but only anecdotally from my tours at YOTA and Friedrichshafen.

I vehemently agree that hams are increasingly not on-the-air. I wax eloquent on this issue in many of my blogs like this. Prepping, hacking, science, and kids are all getting a license but not doing anything with it. The data I use to back that up is primarily QRZ lookups, RBN/PSKreporter spots, and contest logs.

 

Be delighted to have a friendly face to face

Barring 'Coronna let's go back to the stone-age syndrome' being active in May, I will be at Hamvention