Ham Talk Live! Episode 199 - State of the Hobby Survey

Yes, there's a difference between "amateur" and "professional". And there's several definitions of "amateur" in Merriam Webster:

1 : one who engages in a pursuit, study, science, or sport as a pastime rather than as a profession
She played soccer as an amateur before turning professional.
a tournament that is open to both amateurs and professionals

2 : one lacking in experience and competence in an art or science
The people running that company are a bunch of amateurs.
He's a mere amateur when it comes to cooking.

We, as amateurs, like to believe that we're #1, and that other than the distinction of not being paid, amateurs are the functional or performance equivalent of professionals.

However, I suspect some, maybe most, professionals, think of definition #2 when the topic of amateur radio comes up.

 

This (IMO damaging) public peeing contest over "hobby" versus "amateur" versus "service" that we go through occassionally is nothing new.

Interesting QST article by an FCC official, who was also a ham:

Sound familiar?

That's an excerpt from a QST article from December 1963 ! The rest of the article could probably be quoted verbatim in this thread, and fit right in with arguments that Chip has been trying to make.

 

Re: "service" in the name "amateur radio service".

Karl-Arne has it right (as usual). It's in black and white in the ITU Radio Regulations the exact definition of the word "service", and the FCC refences ITU radio regulations definitions in Title 47. Breifly, "amateur radio service" does NOT refer to us performing services; "service" is just the ITU word for the FCC providing the spectrum access and rules for us to use as "amateurs". That's it.

However, we are constantly confusing ourselves because, yes, amateur radio has an expectation (at least in the USA) of performing "public service", via the "voluntary non-commercial communications service, particularly with respect to providing emergency communications" callout in Part 97.1a . That usage of the word "service" in "public service" is NOT the same as the usage in "Amateur Radio Service".

The FCC provides to us an "Amateur Radio Service", which, among other things, entails licensees providing "public service". Two different usages of the word.

So, it's OK to be a hobbyist licensed the Amateur Radio Service. But, as pointed out by Ivan H Loucks in that 1963 QST article, it would be problematic for the Amateur Radio Service to be merely a hobby. We're OK as long as some contingent of us voluntarily provides significant public service, in keeping with Part 97.1; but there's no requirement for individual hams to do so.

IMO we're better off letting the public service that is done stand on merit, and finding ways to increase the (voluntary!) participation in those activities; versus constantly trying to balkanize us into "hobbyists" versus "public servants" versus "amateurs". Doing so is only exaccerbating a public image problem. If we publically can't agree among ourselves on what we think we are, then how can we expect anyone on the outside to know what we are ?

I don't know if the ITU regulations, or any other countries, explicitely cite public service as something the "Amateur Radio Service" should be doing, or if that's something unique to the USA ?

 

Exactly.

But let's ALL blame this 'Chip' person for stating the obvious....

I have not seen that 1963 article but would sure like a copy!

 

Karl took off on an irrelevant digression confusing 'hobby' with 'service'-- (the issue was hobby(ist) vs. amateur moniker)and service mission with the individual's mission.

I was quite clear: Service; Amateur. NOT individual; hobby(ist)

It is this presented confusion on who we are and what the service of 'amateur radio' is about that plays squarely into others' hands.

Shame!

It seems a periodic read of Part 97 would do every amateur radio operator in the US some good.

In the US, amateur radio is a SERVICE. In that SERVICE, many individuals conduct hobby(ist) activity as a means to 'be a pool of skilled operators'. Others enhance the radio art. Others provide emergency communication. Still others spread international good will. These MISSION STATEMENT activities of the SERVICE present the opportunities for the SERVICE to continue justification with its various privileges to INDIVIDUALS.

Stop attacking 'appliance operators'. They are 'skilled in the art'. If you don't think so, then put a non-ham in front of the microphone, alone, and see the incompetence that arises.

The big issue in the US is we have 250,000+ licensed radio amateurs that never ever got on the air. THAT is a problem vis a vis the mission statement for the SERVICE.

Sink in yet ?

 

I think this is mostly correct, but as mentioned in a previous post, there are two definitions for "service". One is that it is a division of rules, regulations, and responsibilities. The amateur service has different goals that the general mobile radio service, or the maritime radio service. All FCC radio applications are divided into distinct "services", and rules from one do not necessarily apply to another.

The other definition is when we provide service, as opposed to the FCC applying service to us. That is when we take part in emergency operations, drills, or comms for public events. That service (from us) is on a voluntary basis, and is included as an intricate part of the overall hobby. When we participate in contests, international good will, or performing a public service (or anything else we do), that is part and parcel of our hobby, which is amateur radio, a licensed FCC service.

Since everything we do is done voluntarily, and with no monetary benefit to us, we are acting under the auspices of a hobby. If it is not a hobby, then what would we classify it as? It is not a vocation, an educational pursuit, a religion, or a family obligation. It is something we do in our spare time, using our own money, and not expecting any monetary return. We do it for pleasure, satisfaction, or a feeling of self worth. And that is the definition of a hobby. And all of the things that embody amateur radio are contained in the "hobby" aspect of it, since we can't be compelled to do it, and we are not paid.

 

Thanks for pointing out that 1963 QST reference Ron.

Also note the long editorial from W2NSD/1 in the same month of 73. It can be viewed at this link starting on page 2.

An uncanny and ironically similar situation and discussion, "keeping ham radio alive" at ITU, etc. Plus after touring, Wayne's viewpoint of the differences in attitudes between Europe and USA, and that being the origins and rationale of the doomed Incentive Licensing fiasco.

73, John, WØPV

 

Are we talking about golf?

 

It's Amature Radio, Armature Radio....or my favorite "Amatir Radio". Get it right!

 

Hmmmm... try 'armchair radio'....

;-)

 

Amateur Radio versus "Professional Radio!" Listened to "pro" radio lately? I submit we stick with Amateur radio and forget trying to add more importance then necessary. Yes, we provide emergency communications during disasters, assist during community functions and provide health and welfare communications. We provide a niche, when necessary, with no thought for remuneration. I became a ham to test my ability to build a station able to span the globe in communications. Hobbyist's have contributed much in technology. Contribute back to your fellow hams, your community and country something to thank our government for the right to use airwaves freely instead of complaining/

 

Radio is an ART...it says so right there in Part 97.

So, we are all amateur ARTISTS who participate in a regulated hobby for personal aims, and may voluntarily provide a service.

 

In it's purest sense, HAM radio is Amateur radio. To be professional, it would have to receive revenue via ad selling or from the government (NPR). Also, it is a HOBBY because most (not all) hams only do it for just that, a hobby. Lots of hobbies require a license; just to name two: hunting and fishing. I've been a ham for just under three years and I really do enjoy this Hobby. I find it truly amazing that I can (on a good day) communicate around the world with just 100 watts and a wire strung up between trees.
73
Tim
K4EIA

 

Imagine if this conversation was on the HF bands.....or better yet, some of the local VHF/UHF repeaters.....might actually be fun to listen to other than the deafening silence most of the time.....carry on, refilling my popcorn and drink now...!

 

Imagine most of your phone HF bands re-allocated beginning in the next 5 years--because the 'ham radio hobby' is deemed unneccessary compared to the needs of other services.. Then the 'hobby' benefits you in what ways?

A simple mnemonic to aid your daily vocabulary in ham radio:

HOBBY = LOSS

It is tragic that many look at Part 97 as --only-- an origin of a QnA test pool for their license, without any attempt, for the most part to understand exactly what it says and means.

The amateur radio service is NOT A HOBBY.

Post #80 should be your guide to understanding the service and your license. It paraphrases the mission statement of Part 97 and includes the 'hobbyist' component :

In the US, amateur radio is a SERVICE. In that SERVICE, many individuals conduct hobby(ist) activity as a means to 'be a pool of skilled operators'. Others enhance the radio art. Others provide emergency communication. Still others spread international good will. These MISSION STATEMENT activities of the SERVICE present the opportunities for the SERVICE to continue justification with its various privileges to INDIVIDUALS.