FT-8, The New HF/6m Digital Mode, Introduction For Beginners

Thank you for the information John. I've used this method and it works great.

If anyone has questions about how LOTW categorizes new digital modes, please reference the "Trusted QSL, LoTW and Digital Modes" document located here: http://www.arrl.org/files/file/LoTW Instructions/TQSL 2_0 2013/Secodary operations/Digital Modes.pdf

Cheers & 73 - Sean

 

That was actually my point.

Great, so the pile-up surrounding every running station will now span 3kHz+, and not just the width of one signal.

 

It might! But so what? Most DX callers will be copied simultaneously by the CQ Runner. (try that with CW)

Dozens of callers in a piece of spectrum still no bigger then a single SSB signal; compare that with rare DX SSB pileups that are run far less efficiently with offset split freq's that can span 5-25 khz wide!

If the fire that FT8 has started keeps flaring, there will have to be many many digi channels, and/or plans for expanded sub-band(s).

 

Well, since we were talking about contesting (well, I was anyway), and since the digital portion of many of our main bands is much smaller than the voice portion, then a running station consuming 3kHz is actually a significant problem.

And if you multiply 3kHz by the average number of runners in a typical digital contest, we're going to need much bigger HF bands before JT contesting starts.

The JT modes are fine for DXing, and they are fine for playing with propagation, and they are fine for people who want to stuff their logbooks with 599 73 contacts. I'm currently running an SDR every day gulping down JT stations of all kinds to test DX effectiveness of a dedicated receive antenna that I'm experimenting with. And I'm planning to add a second SDR to do some long-term testing of the antenna using the JT modes. But JT modes are not contesting modes.

 

Take a look at 'Modes over last two hours'.
https://pskreporter.info/cgi-bin/pskstats.pl



73,

Jon Pearl - W4ABC

 

The OP is about the FT8 mode, NOT "JT ". Their significant differences make lumping them together in the context of contesting a non-sequitur.

Not bigger HF bands, just reallocation of the sub-bands, ie, less CW / phone allocation, more digital. This can be relatively easily accomplished.

Realize that FT8 has triggered a literal IMPLOSION of OTA activity migrating away from all other modes. Easily seen on 6 meters, but as anecdotes indicate (see W4ABC post #35 above) is also happening happening on HF bands like 20m.

These are not new hams running FT8; some are exisitng digi op's, but MANY are SSB/CW op's, drawn by the novelty or ability to get results like making QSO's toward operating awards even with poor propagation.

This digi-vacuum is creating a HUGE SPACE OF DEAD AIR outside the digital sub-band while overloading the currently few allocated FT / JT digi channels. SSB / CW CQ's get fewer or no replies because everybody is glued to keyboards and displays.

Use it or lose it; filling it with FT8 etc is better then the latter.

Again, if FT8 mode is meant (not JT), it would appear that, sorry, that train has already left the station, ie, CQ VHF contest this year.

73 de John WØPV

 

KJ4YZI -- Absolutely first class video. Very helpful. Thanks for taking the time to make it. The material you show can really save one a lot of time when getting started with this new mode. I'm learning a lot.

 

It is FAST !!!

Please do not run a lot of power. Anything over 20 watts is Overkill.

I run 10 - 12 watts....and am working the World on 20 Meters....

 

Amen brother! Seeing A LOT of over driven signals and I'm gonna guess HIGH power levels being used on this mode. With the more recent crowding on JT65a it appears that higher power levels have become the norm there as well. Of course that only makes things worse. More bleeding and stomping that forces other ops to turn their power levels up. Going back a couple years ago if I attempted to make a JT65a contact, it was made. Now it's getting much tougher and many ops can't seem to complete a contact for whatever reason. Using PSKReporter it seems that there are many stations ignoring stations answering their calls. ???

It used to be that if you could hear them they could be worked. It's not such a sure thing any longer. Many of the newer JT operators have brought some of their bad operating habits with them from other modes. It was first noticeable when I started seeing shortened contacts. i.e. "RRR 73". The breaches start small and innocuous but end up as a forgotten mode due to the adding up of those same small innocuous breaches.

The popularity of JT-65a may in the long run, be it's own demise. Or should I say the operators will be it's demise.

Like others have stated, maybe more different types of these modes can help spread out some of the traffic.

But so far it's clear that FT-8 is a pretty big hit! It was a monster during this past Es event for sure!

Thanks,

Ed

 

I am amused how many of you have spun the words on FT-8.

FT-8 hasn't just become an 'option'. It has become, at least on 6m, --virtually-- the only mode of use.

6m has been 'disrupted'.

Is that good? Well, we determine what mode or modes we want to use, but FT-8 is not a fad. It has great value, but an unexpected downside.

That major downside, as I have publicly mentioned already, is that fixed-frequency, limited band , digital modes beg the question of WHY hams need all but the SMALLEST parcel of spectrum.

IOW, you can't justify spectrum without using it.

Truth up: I am already hearing discussions about requests for reallocations of MOST of 6m.

Why?

Because you don't need 4000 KHz of band to accommodate up to 20KHz of use.

You guys should have thought this through before the day the universe changed....

 

This is a very fun mode! Been running it since July 23rd with my KX2 and 10w. Mostly on 20m. Frustrating when you double click on a call and someone else beats you to them! Even at this bad time of the solar cycle I'm being heard in Europe through my end fed. I'm not a paper chaser or contester, just having fun!

 

Good info.

I am still unclear why the current incarnation of FT8 has trouble decoding signals which appear as hairy caterpillars on the waterfall .

Perhaps...

- extremely strong signals (too much power being used)
- overmodulation (lack of attention to ALC, which usually works well from 50% to 100%)
- receiver overload (increasing the passband or adjusting RF gain helps tremendously)

Any thoughts from knowledgeable folks?

 

They are all the same family of modes, and the operational constraints that I mentioned apply to FT8 just as much as JT65. And they were written by K1JT, so yes, they can all be correctly described as "JT" modes for the purposes of the point I was making. Trying to say that JT-65 is different from FT8 is only about as meaningful as saying that PSK-31 is different from PSK-125. Yes, -125 is faster, but operationally, they are vary, very similar.

There are no "allocated" channels for JT modes. You can operate JT-65 at 14001 just as easily as you can at 14076. And the "dead air" just makes my point for me. FT8 is just another fad, and it will wear off. People are playing with FT8 because it is new, at the expense of other modes for the time being. Usage will re-equalize soon. I remember when 14070 was on fire with PSK-31. Now you are doing well to make a half-dozen contacts a day there.

Sigh. It's a shame you think that way.

Maybe so. But VHF contesting is not HF contesting. The numbers just don't compare. VHF bands are huge, compared to HF bands. And VHF contest participation is tiny compared to major HF contests.

I appreciate that you like the JT modes. As I said, they have their uses. HF contesting won't be one of them.

 

Precisely Chip. The digi mode Genie has been let out of the bottle and isn't going back in without changing band use layouts, or hams risk losing that spectrum.

What baffles is when FT8 is mentioned with contesting the outcry is "And if you multiply 3kHz by the average number of runners in a typical digital contest, we're going to need much bigger HF bands before JT contesting starts."

IMO, OK fine, let's fill them all up with FT8 / JT ! And contests !! That which is used gets preserved.

Unfortunately the high end of 6 meters could be a foregone fate no matter what the mode. It's just a matter of how much gets lopped off. FM repeaters never took off there relative to higher bands, and simplex users all huddle down on the low end for better terrestrial DX propagation, especially now consolidated and sucked into the singularity of FT8.

Now I'm getting more worried about the HF bands. In reaction to the bad prop condx, the FT8 / JT effect is taking hold down there too. It's long overdue for the ARRL to get more serious about re-planning sub-bands within existing spectrum allocations. The digi-window is overloaded but expanding it down into the CW portion doesn't seem logical.

It's apparent that in the face of the dismal solar cycle, and the fad of social networking using text messaging, many frustrated Phone users are abandoning that for new digi-modes. So sharing those sub-bands only with image modes (!) seems kinda silly.

73 de John - WØPV

 

I dunno... I always thought "we're taxpayers and citizens and we have a right to use a reasonable piece of public spectrum" was a fairly good argument. It's unfortunate that ARRL has chosen to focus on EMCOMM as their catch-all reason that AR should exist. Private pilots don't use "emergency flight operations" as their main reason for why US airspace should be open to use by private individuals. At least in the US, we shouldn't have to "justify" amateur access to 6m or any other band.