Censured ARRL Director Dick Norton at the Yuma Hamfest on HamRadioNow

Nice bluff, but no cigar, I call you..... Show your cards or fold.......

 

FWIW, If a useful bill is to ever go through, it's not going to happen this way. Instead of this idiotic attempt to "work" with the HOA Association, and this PR nonsense, better to spend the lobbying money getting palsy with a few congresscritters and agency "crats" and sneak a meaningful bill into some other "Must Pass" piece of legislation. As an example, if you sneak this into the "Florida Coast Relief Act" next time a hurricane hits there, Sen. Nelson is not going to veto it. That is how stuff actually gets done. Even then, we will have to build the case law by having some wealthy hams who can afford it and live in a HOA file suit (suggest they be small HOAs, we aren't going to be able to break "The Villages" for example), who can outspend their HOA. Anything else is b.s.

 

See my original response to Chip. The Bill would be ok without the "Pre Approval" and some more definition of an acceptable outdoor antenna, but the only way to get that is the direct opposite of this whole "Work with the HOA, let's try to get some good PR out it" approach by the League. Forget doing anything public, take the most absolutist language you can get away with, become drinking buddies with the right people and get it into an unrelated bill. Yeah it will piss people off, and it will then require a bunch of money to make sure some weak HOAs lose, so precedent is set, but, if you want something meaningful, that's the path. Also, make sure N2YBB is detained at TSA, anytime he attempts to board a flight to DC.

 

I really don't care for the "Pre-approval" component either, and I care for CAI even less. But I believe in most cases all involved parties will work towards a compromise that the HOA and Resident Ham can live with if this law is enacted as currently worded..

I'm not saying there won't be cases where everyone winds up in court, I just don't think it will be the norm...

 

I guess that is where we disagree. From what I've seen, in regulation cases, Government bodies, and private sector regulators go for ..maximum regulation. I agree, it ends up in court either way, but the most important factor is what sets the base for "case law." The HR555 wording gives that baseline to the HOA. That means that in any lawsuit or disagreement, things are weighed in favor of the HOA before arguments start. The case law built on that will further cement HOA control. We are better off with the ambiguity of no law, rather than that. I know folks are looking for a "win-win" but the interests of CAI and ourselves just are diametrically opposite. They have no reason to cede anything, and that isn't out of malice per se, it is because it is cheaper and easier for them to not deal with this stuff. We have opposite interests, and there is no ability to get even to a meaningful compromise, except by confrontation. It's essentially why politics and courts exist. In a perfect world, instead of an ARPA Bill, we'd pass a "Don't Be an Idiot" Bill. HOAs wouldn't boilerplate things, and nobody would really care about that OCF in the yard, and nobody would try putting up 100 ft of unguyed 25G on a postage stamp sized lot, but, in the real world ...

 

I believe you're missing an important part of the math... Without ARPA there is NO Court Case, the HOA says nope, and we're done....... Now think about this, do most litigators want to go to trial??? Most will answer no, it's better to settle out of court... So ARPA could give most REASONABLE Hams an antenna(s) without the cost of a trial........ Right now, the standard answer is "NOPE", and we're done...

Just saying, I think you're looking at the glass as half empty...

73,
Russ

 

Oh, and by the way, Senator Nelson is on Record stating that he believed OTARD was a Government overreach, and that it was unnecessary... He didn't care that a record number of Americans were fed up with their cable companies...... Nice Guy........

 

LOL,you do know what party he is part of right? I sure do but I 100% agree with his tabling the garbage last year & he may not this year because even he can see it is far worse than last years POS offering & will do more damage than good all by itself.Cry babies move where they sign a contract knowing the rules & the cry & want somebody else too fight their battles for them.I say let them all sleep in the bed they lay in & they made for themselves.If an HOA was formed after they moved in then that's a totally different animal & they should be grandfathered in & put up what they like within reason.All others should live with what they get & stop publicly crying.

Clayton
W4KVW

 

Here's a start at what the wording SHOULD be:


SEC. 3. Application of private land use restrictions to amateur stations.

(a) Amendment of FCC rules.—Not later than 120 days after the date of the enactment of this Act, the Federal Communications Commission shall amend section 97.15 of title 47, Code of Federal Regulations, by adding a new paragraph that prohibits the application to amateur stations of any private land use restriction, including a restrictive covenant, that—

(1) on its face or as applied, precludes communications in an amateur radio service;

(2) fails to permit a licensee in an amateur radio service to install and maintain an effective outdoor antenna on property under the exclusive use or control of the licensee; AND

(3) does not constitute the minimum practicable restriction on such communications to accomplish the lawful purposes of a community association seeking to enforce such restriction.
=================================================

Currently, the bill has OR where it should be an AND. The words do matter.

 

There's more.

Save the rest of the aces.

If not, the ARRL will blame members for derailing its efforts.

IMO we need the representatives of the people--the Senate-- to judge the bill.

We all know where it will end up...at least as presently worded. So why take the flack for the blame?

 

Yep, he's a Dem... And he's in for a major political battle just to keep his seat on the Hill... And to fight off the challenger and keep his Senate seat he will need lots of cash... Nelson is milking every political donor he can, including the HOAs in his State... That's why he's the lone holdout on ARPA, it's politics as usual...... I can just hear it now (the pitch to CAI members), Support Nelson for Senate, or you'll have a 100ft radio tower in almost every backyard in Florida..

 

Whatever the wording in the ARPA bill is, the HOA reserves the right to have some kind of say in the matter either way. There's never going to be a bill introduced that entirely disregards an HOA's authority to have some kind of control over their own property development. That's the bottom line on the matter and we need to somehow work with that accordingly.

The CAI will work with us to install reasonable antenna's in HOA's, but they are not willing to permit any kind of carte blanche antenna installations.

The alternative is no antennas permitted in HOA's at all, so all you cry babies need to come to some sort of mutual consensus on the matter.

 

Drafts of a re-written bill I have seen do not remove the HOA's from the process. They fix the wording on the bad, bad HR555.

There is no language anywhere about "reasonable" in HR555. It sets up that wording in the "findings" but not the resolution.The wording is "AN EFFECTIVE OUTDOOR ANTENNA". That is highly restrictive and fatal language as it stands.

You are reverting to the "reasonable accommodation" language of PRB-1. That's not in HR555. The actions say nothing about "reasonable accommodation".

The bill will die but ARPA will not.

73
Chip W1YW

 

As presently and fatally worded, here's what HR555 enacts if passed---

Note that "FINDINGS" are not "ACTIONS" in bills. The law is the ACTIONS.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(a) Amendment Of FCC Rules.—Not later than 120 days after the date of the enactment of this Act, the Federal Communications Commission shall amend section 97.15 of title 47, Code of Federal Regulations, by adding a new paragraph that prohibits the application to amateur stations of any private land use restriction, including a restrictive covenant, that—

(1) on its face or as applied, precludes communications in an amateur radio service;

(2) fails to permit a licensee in an amateur radio service to install and maintain an effective outdoor antenna on property under the exclusive use or control of the licensee; or

(3) does not constitute the minimum practicable restriction on such communications to accomplish the lawful purposes of a community association seeking to enforce such restriction.

(b) Additional Requirements.—In amending its rules as required by subsection (a), the Commission shall—

(1) require any licensee in an amateur radio service to notify and obtain prior approval from a community association concerning installation of an outdoor antenna;

(2) permit a community association to prohibit installation of any antenna or antenna support structure by a licensee in an amateur radio service on common property not under the exclusive use or control of the licensee; and

(3) subject to the standards specified in paragraphs (1) and (2) of subsection (a), permit a community association to establish reasonable written rules concerning height, location, size, and aesthetic impact of, and installation requirements for, outdoor antennas and support structures for the purpose of conducting communications in the amateur radio services.

 

I used to live in MN, Land of 10K Lakes; now in FL "Land of 100K HOA's" I am glad that the one in my older development, now a city neighborhood, dissolved long ago.

Not all HOA's are enemies, and Hams are not the only force of political change pushing on them.

CC&R's and HOA's created by developers with the idea to add value to the property. They initially pick a look and set of values they think appeals to the most customers. However this changes over time by the processes of the HOA.

IMO there is a growing trend among some mostly older HOA's away from the draconian ways that represent the extreme Hams fear. Many are becoming more cooperative with desires of existing and potential new residents to have more personal control of their homes.

There is growing backlash against extreme overly controlling HOA's as corrupt bullying SOCIALIST organizations. That includes many HOA boards with members who vote for Republican state governors. These days, many existing homeowners, and more importantly, new potential HOA real estate buyers, have a more LIBERTARIAN outlook LOCALLY, even if they support a Democratic agenda nationally.

Example - there is a HOA near me that has prohibited a licensed tradesman, like a plumber or electrician, from parking his lettered work van inside a closed garage at night, claiming its an infringement on a rule baring commercial operations in the 'hood.

So some HOA's see flexibility as an OPPORTUNITY, not an imposed attack, and are actually going out of their way to market themselves as featuring relatively MORE FREEDOM for residents and newcomers to do their own things. Entrepreneurs, crafter's, citizen scientists, sports-people, artists and hobbyists, mild eccentrics of all sorts, are not just welcomed, they are being solicited.

This is being done as a means of PRODUCT DIFFERENTIATION in a real-estate environment that has become saturated with "HOA POSH PRISONS". Some HOA's have realized that there are buyers who will PAY A HIGHER PRICE for real-estate that accommodates the reasonable requirements of their avocations.

Don't just try to bludgeon CAI with a hard-line strategy and a complicated ambiguous law. The ARRL with a revised ARPA ought to also seek out surfing the cusp of this future real-estate marketing wave.

73, John, WØPV