Petiton started to void HOA Antenna Restrictions.

My bolding.

Is it really true that there are situations where you can have a group of properties with an HOA but the owners collectively do not have the power to change their own rules?

I don't understand the legal structures involved but this seems like a fundamental "freedom" type issue that the general public should be concerned about.

Maybe someone can enlighten me on how these things work but I always assumed that a subset of the owners are elected by some sort of democratic process to "the board" or whatever it's called and they have the power to change rules or they call a general vote among the owners or something.

I assumed that if an owner doesn't like the rules then there is always the possibility that if he could get enough support from his neighbors then there is process to change the rules if others agree. Maybe he needs to get elected to the board himself or do some campaigning or whatever. It may be difficult because the neighbors simply don't want his antennas etc but from what I'm reading here and in other places, some rules are "sticky" and simply cannot be changed even by democratic agreement among the owners.

Is that really true? If it is then I believe that's the bigger issue here.

 

KT1F "Is it really true that there are situations where you can have a group of properties with an HOA but the owners collectively do not have the power to change their own rules?"

The documents can be changed but usually only after the developer has 'buit out' and sold all his units - a process that can take years in many cases. Changing the documents usually involves a community-wide vote of a substantial majority (often 2/3 or 3/4) of the home owners. The process is expensive, time consuming and quite likely to fail - if for no other reason than simple intertia.

My HOA has been 'built out' for about a year and our documents still prohibit satellite dishes and TV antennas in spite of PRB-1. They also continue to prohibit flagpoles in spite of the Florida's 'flagpole law.'

Most HOA's are very tight fisted financially and changing documents can be an expensive legal process to be avoided for reasons of cost.

 

I never did understand that one. Makes no sense to me.

It is unlawful to be patriotic ? That shows the ignorance that some HOAs have.

 

K5CSK

I agree with KD8KQH. Rants do not get you anywhere, but facts might do the job. The two most prominent objections HOA's site for no external towers/antennas are depreciation of property values, and RFI. WIth the advent of digital tv in lieu of analog tv, the chances of RFI have decreased. In regard to degraded property values, I can refute this. I live in Bexar County in San Antonio, TX. I can go into the Bexar COunty Appraisal District web site, and type in my street name to look at the property values. If antenna towers degraded property values, all of the property values around my house would be less than the value of my house. All of the property values are the same. Therefore, this argument is an oldie, but a goodie. If we are going to try to persuade the FCC to change their stance, we need to provide substantive facts. Even then, it will be an uphill battle considering the past FCC position that covenants are a private agreement.

 

Property values are different depending on who you ask.

The Appraisal District will make the value high, so that they can Tax you more.

The real value when you go to sell it is a completely different story.

 

I dont see it that way.. I dont believe the biggest complaint is either of those. I believe that some home owners would just rather
not look at what they deem ubly antennas and antenna supports.

Lee[
NI7I
QUOTE=K5CSK;2522666]K5CSK

I agree with KD8KQH. Rants do not get you anywhere, but facts might do the job. The two most prominent objections HOA's site for no external towers/antennas are depreciation of property values, and RFI. WIth the advent of digital tv in lieu of analog tv, the chances of RFI have decreased. In regard to degraded property values, I can refute this. I live in Bexar County in San Antonio, TX. I can go into the Bexar COunty Appraisal District web site, and type in my street name to look at the property values. If antenna towers degraded property values, all of the property values around my house would be less than the value of my house. All of the property values are the same. Therefore, this argument is an oldie, but a goodie. If we are going to try to persuade the FCC to change their stance, we need to provide substantive facts. Even then, it will be an uphill battle considering the past FCC position that covenants are a private agreement.[/QUOTE]

 

After being the chair of our Architectural Review Committee as well as being on our BOD, I can honestly say that towers would rank a #5 out of 10 if one were to rank all the goofy situations that homeowners present in the pursuit of their life styles. Things like dump trucks with leaky hydraulic lines being illegally parked in driveways, fraternal and sports emblems on driveways, illegal dog runs (not to mention the poop issues in public areas), landscaping in the drainage swales, sheds, and perhaps most intensely "RENTERS" are but a few of the situations facing those evil BOD people. And yes, many in our community consider us evil and non-American. Interestingly enough, in our first real non-builder dominated election, we were pleading with homeowners to run for the Board. I guess that it is easier to complain then it is to work for change and resolve issues within a community. Finally, after reading all this attitude towards HOA's/POA's I suspect that if towers/antennas in back yards were approved, many of you would complain because the BOD won't allow you to install them in your front yard.

One more thing.... When our community was dominated by the builder flag poles were not allowed. Our community gave the builder a petition with the majority of home owners signatures on it..... Our CC&R's were changed to allow flag poles!

 

Just to clarify, PRB-1 has nothing to do with TV antennas or satellite dishes. OTARD is the Federal law passed around 1996 that allows TV antennas and Satellite dishes. Your HOA is *REALLY* behind the times if they have not updated their Condo docs in 14 years!!

 

I don,t get it. My way of thinking is it is like someone buying a boat but lives hundreds of miles from water. Why buy the boat. Or a chain saw store in the middle of the desert. If one lives in a HOA can you have a mid-night pig roast in the back yard? AN HOA is one step from a nursing home.

 

Do you restrict what flag is permitted on it?

 

For those that want the goverment to get off their backs, I will remind you it's the goverment that has made it mandatory for development to have an HOA. Why? Because the goverment cannot do the things a HOA/CC&R can. Local goverments have tried to exclude antennas especially amateur radio and (they group HR into this group) CB. They have met strong opposition and often have to relent. So why not make it a binding personal contract? You cannot fight those without cause and proving cause is very difficult and can be expensive. In the one example where the builder did remove a provision of the contract it wasn't because the homeowners wanted it, it was because his lawyers told him that it was a violation of a law.
Now, has anybody noticed that almost virtually all HOA contracts contain exactly the same things? It's as though someone drafted the document and then distributed it to the planning committees and local goverments. In no circumstance has anybody ever suffered a devalued property value as the result of the presence of amateur radio antennas. Nobody has ever presented evidence that has happened. If it were true, with the way society is, the radio amateur would have been sued for that so-called value. Hasn't happened.
If you want the goverment to relax the pressure they put on homeowners then you have get them to quit mandating HOA restictions. These are far worse then the local goverments are capable of putting as a law on their books.
73
Gary

 

It's really the local governments putting pressure on developers to include all the restrictions they do. They do this so they can get the people buying in these developments to pay twice for many things such as streets, sidewalks, sewers etc. If the developer doesn't play ball with the local government, they can't get their development platted and it will never get built. Homeowners must pay for these things in addition to paying local taxes. Homeowners pay double to live in their restricted paradises! The local governments collect the taxes but don't have to pay to install or maintain the streets, sidewalks etc. It's a great deal for them. It really doesn't do much for the Feds. They don't have a dog in the fight. HOA's get away with all kinds of restrictions and things that local governments could never get away with because HOA's technically are not governments. They are private entities just like commercial corporations. Washington is not the reason for the problem - but it could be part of a solution so far as hams are concerned.

 

Yes...... only an American flag is permitted.... But the homeowner can fly any flag of choice from a pole attached to their house. BTW, the group who wrote and collected the petition wrote the criteria for the flag pole, and this criteria included the type and size of the flag, construction of the pole and its location.

 

Interesting video. I don't quite get what it's about.

[video=youtube;bmRLjRS2iO4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmRLjRS2iO4[/video]

And here's an interesting web site: HOA Reform Coalition

I think HOA restrictions are getting a bit more on the news these days and that's mostly because of solar panels.

Do a Google search for solar HOA to see what I mean. There have been a lot of legal challenges. Lots of states have passed laws forcing HOAs to allow solar panels.

Unfortunately I don't think any this really helps hams with antennas. It's just interesting to see what else is going on with HOAs.

 

Gary, exactly how does our government "mandate" HOAs? The development I live in has NO HOA and NO CC&Rs.

...........Bob