Petiton started to void HOA Antenna Restrictions.

Discussion in 'Amateur Radio News' started by KZ5R, Apr 12, 2012.

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  1. KZ5R

    KZ5R Subscriber

    For 100 years amateur radio has played a vital role in the technological development of the United States and continues to do so today. Thousands of scientists and engineers got started in electronics and communications careers as a result of an early interest in amateur radio. Many of today’s scientists and engineers, as well as others in less technical fields, continue to enjoy amateur radio. Amateur radio is an activity that has a demonstrated history of “paying off” for society.

    Radio amateurs have a proud tradition of making their skills and equipment available for backup and auxiliary emergency communications in times of disaster - at no cost to taxpayers. The Amateur Radio Service provides a layer of redundancy - a most desirable feature of any communications system.

    Unreasonable and unnecessary land use restrictions are now near universal in prohibiting the erection of antennas essential for amateur radio communications in most residential developments constructed in recent decades. Homeowner’s and property owner’s associations have usurped the legitimate authority of the Federal Communications Commission in this area of telecommunications. This has had a detrimental effect upon the development of the Amateur Radio Service and, as a consequence, it has had a negative effect upon our ability to provide emergency communications during times of disaster.

    We request the Federal Communications Commission to take whatever steps are necessary to immediately void all existing private land use restrictions dealing with antennas used for the transmission or reception of radio signals and to disallow any future creation of such restrictions by private homeowner’s and property owner’s associations. We further request that the Federal Communications Commission consider the establishment of reasonable criteria for permitting the erection of antennas in private residential areas.

    To sign the petition, go to http://www.change.org/petitions/fed...s-by-homeowner-s-associations-and-developers#
     
  2. K1VSK

    K1VSK Ham Member

    I may be the only one who doesn't want the government telling me, my community, my town or my neighborhood how to manage our aesthetics. If I choose to live there, I also don't need the Federal government fixing my self-inflicted limitations. It has bigger problems than managing my neighborhood skyline.
     
  3. KD8KQH

    KD8KQH Ham Member

    Why, instead of a petition, which does not provide any concrete, specific information except the opinion of a minority group (yes, we are a minority), don't you answer the specific questions that FCC has asked in the Request for Comments issued some days ago?

    Frankly, this petition is of very little value. Everything that is said in the petition is a well-know information and FCC already knows it. That's why FCC is asking for specific examples and proposals on how to correct this situation. They need FACTS, not OPINIONS to act on the subject.

    Please read my post from few days ago on this specific subject. Moreover, if you don't have time to write specific answers to FCC, just copy one of the letters that other hams have submitted to the FCC answering the specific questions. If you support the specific examples and proposals that other hams sent, subscribe to there comments, instead of making a broad petition that is not adding anything new.

    If you want to change FCC position on CC&R's provide factual information. If you can show that a single life was lost because of HOA's CC&R's on amateur antennas, and that this life could have been saved if FCC changed current rules, there is no doubt FCC (and the public in general) will embrace the change. Otherwise, it's just another rant.
     
  4. KA9JLM

    KA9JLM Platinum Subscriber

    Again ?

    Moving is a great fix.

    Or use Echolink.
     
  5. WK5X

    WK5X Ham Member

    This is an easy one: If you want to put up an antenna, don't buy property in an area with a HOA.
     
  6. KA9JLM

    KA9JLM Platinum Subscriber

    That is so true.
     
  7. KC2VQZ

    KC2VQZ Ham Member

    no restrations dave
     
  8. WW7F

    WW7F Guest

    Just curious,any amateurs that are in real estate have an opinion on this subject? It coul be interesting to hear what some of them have to say. I have a hunch there are a number of realtors who are against it because of headaches this might create for them, I also have an idea some of them are maybe going with the flow in thier business.
    I'm for getting rid of the stupid HOA mutual admiration societies many of thier rules feel like the homeowner lives in some kind of serfdom and not thier own home.
    These stupid rules are getting to be more like condo life not a homeowner's piece of some American Dream with some small group of people imposing thier agenda on the many who live under the HOA's rules.
    I don't have an issue with the rules like no old cars to be rebuilt in the front yard or keeping trash picked up but the stuff like no different color if it clashes with thier grand little design.
    It is funny isn't it how many people got along just fine without some panel of dictatorial elitists with an agenda to have some grand little dream of a cut out neighborhood ala Norman Rockwell .
    I have no axe to grind just my opinion is all,73 to all, Michelle
     
  9. KA9JLM

    KA9JLM Platinum Subscriber

    I have heard of rules and HOA BS that says you can not put your trash out for pickup, before 1 hour before pickup time.

    If the trash man comes late then you are in the wrong.
    Or is a stray dog gets into your trash then it is your fault.

    Ham radio is the least of concern when it comes to the HOA and their DA rules.

    You can not even change the oil on your own automobile. That is why Jiffy Lubes are popping up everywhere.

    Someone is making a bunch of money to keep you brainwashed.

    The worst part is that you pay your HOA to screw you.
     
  10. KB0KYV

    KB0KYV Ham Member

    Yes, you're the only one! What do you think that says about your viewpoint?
     
  11. KB0KYV

    KB0KYV Ham Member

    This argument is rubbish! It doesn't even make any sense. If this type of proposal were enacted as law, the government would be expanding and protecting our rights to operate a ham station, not "telling us what to do"! If you don't like the aesthetics of my dipole, it's really simple... DON'T PUT ONE UP!!!
     
  12. WE6C

    WE6C Ham Member

    You are right! Easy!
     
  13. G3SEA

    G3SEA Ham Member

    Good Luck :)

    Much of the Public does not know or care about Ham Radio ( Until a Disaster occurs of course ! ).

    I have just used an HT on IRLP or Echolink ( HT or Laptop to distant Repeaters ) to maintain comms with Many Ham friends across the World.

    While not pure Ham Radio it is one way to get around these HOA's.

    KH6/G3SEA
     
  14. N2ZNC

    N2ZNC Premium Subscriber

    I lived in a condo development years ago, my wife couldn't put some flower pots on the deck, I couldn't expand the deck on my own property, cause they had to be the same size as everyone else's.. couldn't put different windows, although the ones that were there were very inefficient and outdated. So I sold and moved, where I could put whatever I wanted.

    When people stop buying into developments with HOAs etc.. prices will go down, and when they have to resort to section 8 housing, then they will realize how dumb some of their stuff really is.

    You can try and change the law to obliterate HOA rules, involving antennas etc.. But the fact is that our antennas, towers, wires etc.. are not the prettiest things in the world, and when you are in close proximity of your neighbor, like your door is 5 ft from your neighbors like in many of these developments, your neighbors won't be too happy.

    JMHO

    george
     
  15. KA9JLM

    KA9JLM Platinum Subscriber

    That reminds me of some of the people that are seen at Wal-Mart. lol
    And they are not banned from being seen in public.

    But many of them should be...

    That may be why the HOA does not want Wal-marts in the neighborhood.
    .
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2012
  16. K6OK

    K6OK Ham Member

    Actually you have it backwards. I don't want my neighbors/HOA/CC&Rs using their self-appointed power from overruling existing federal law and existing federal jurisdiction.

    It's really simple in my view. Private contracts cannot override laws or assume government power. That's the law and the courts have enforced that for decades. The FCC has legal authority, provided by Congress, to have sole jurisdiction over telecommunication matters. The FCC used that power to invalidate all CC&Rs/HOAs for satellite dishes and TV antennas. They should do the same for amateur radio. 73 Jim K6OK
     
  17. K0RGR

    K0RGR Premium Subscriber

    While I strongly favor FCC requiring a reasonable accommodation for amateur antennas that might be used for EMCOMM purposes, and simultaneously opening the door for a bit more freedom for general hamming, I don't favor eliminating 'all' restrictions. I think the pre-emption must be limited, and workable. Otherwise, yes, every realtor and developer this side of Venus will be lined up with blood in their eye.

    If you want a new home, or a newer one in most places, CC+R's are a fact of life. In some places, it's not as big a burden as older tracts, where the CC+R's have expired or were never put in place are available. But even in an old city like this one, it took a long time to find a house, and if I needed one that was more wheelchair ready, I'd have been pretty much out in the cold as far as antennas go. One townhouse developer, desperate to make a sale, agreed to let me have a HyTower at the back of the property, as long as there were no beams or wires. But, I had other concerns about the townhouse, so I moved on.
     
  18. KO6WB

    KO6WB Premium Subscriber

    None of this would be necessary if HOA and CC&R were reasonable on something as simple as an antenna. It must also be noted that HOA have become a plague on our options in many areas. It is just about impossible to find a place to live that does not have the rules of an HOA over it. Most HOA forbid any transmissions of any kind and if you can transmit and you are believed to be the cause of interference (in their minds) then they and the affected party can sue you and you must pay their attorney fees. Since when did HOA become an authority on RFI, TVI and other electronic issues.
    The fact is the restrictions on radio amateur antennas is not unlike the now forbidden rules that excluded Blacks, Jews and the Irish from buying a home. It's a discriminatory act plain and simple. To resolve this require our govering bodies to stand up and do the right things as they have done in the past. It did take them a very long time to get around to the actions they did take but it is hoped they learned a leason on how to do this and when it's the best time to do so. Now would be good.
    73
    Gary
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2012
  19. KE9ZM

    KE9ZM Ham Member

    Is this what you are fighting to allow? In any neighborhood? In any place? Out my back window? Without restriction of any kind?

    This former ARRL Section Manager shows an excellent example of what is possible.
    Does the ARRL HQ stand behind its current/former Section Managers as example of what they (ARRL) represent?
    I'm just asking the question. Not making a judgement.

    Can we submit this image to the FCC as an example of what we, Hams, are asking for and what the ARRL endorses as what it has in mind? Just asking to what we mean by "Unreasonable and unnecessary". Is this "reasonable" in the mind of the ARRL? Is this "reasonable" in the minds of those who will sign the petition? Is this "essential for amateur radio communications "? Just asking.

    http://www.wa6mhz.org/

    wa6mhz.png
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2012
  20. KD7PMS

    KD7PMS Ham Member

    Another angle to view this from...

    Amateur radio is taught and promoted by youth groups such as the Boy Scouts of America. Would a child living at home be expected to move in order to participate in amateur radio? This child may live in an HOA with parents that are not active in amateur radio but still support their involvement. This is a scenario that could not be foreseen at the time the parents purchased the home. I wasn't licensed until I was 24, but my father was licensed at the age of 14. At the time he was licensed he did not have any HOAs to contend with. If we expect the hobby to grow we should look to the youth to carry it into the future.

    73
    Dan
     
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