Review Post #136 for a list of those that were positive / helpful. I believe anytime more than one person discusses an issue there will always be negative comments ... even more so in these current days. Always best to attempt to overlook those and focus on the positive.
Ah the new good buddy mode is DMR. FT8 isn't far off either, it pretty bad operating these days. Zero knowledge of radio operating, and lots just don't care sound familar? C.B. is everywhere on the ham bands nowdays. I see lots of shack sales, good thing I did this a number of years ago and only have a minimalist setup.
Here is my two cents...I think the reason why in some areas 2 meters is becoming like CB Radio is because no one cares anymore by following the rules we have to follow by. I know there is a couple of Amateur Radio operators who constantly get on 11 meters and cause issues with the truck drivers and one of the problem people is a well known to the FCC and etc but the guy is still active on the radio especially on HF. I'm slowly doing away from Amateur Radio cause it's how some people act towards other people on the airwaves it's a constant battle with some people no matter what you do on the air you'll get somebody with nothing better to do with their lives and cause an issue. Yes, You can switch the channel/frequency to hopefully to find a civil conversation with someone across town, city, state or etc. In my years of being a radio operator I've heard it all from one thing to another especially on two meters in different states while traveling through or as a resident. You'll be amused and surprised what I've heard between couple of people or bunch even with repeater owners going against each other over the air. Who wants to hear someone act like a idiot or etc? I know I don't but you can't do much besides complain to the repeater owner or the FCC if you do get to speak someone that will actually listen to you without rushing you out off the phone. - Jamie N4CYA
Yep, we've noticed. Since late 2016 I am both a licensed ham and a powered paragliding pilot. First, some clarifications: - PPG, AKA Powered Paragliding, AKA paramotoring: A pilot has a paragliding wing and a back mounted motor of between 80 and 250 cc. Launching is done from land with the pilot running - or sitting in a small 3 or 4 wheeled cart - pulling up the wing behind him or her, and then hitting the gas while running to get into the air and fly. This is generally the lightest form of powered flight and the pilots generally enjoy flying low and slow - 25-30 mph airspeed. These are usually flown in the first few or last few hours of the day because the thermal activity during the day generally makes the flights uncomfortable - unless the goal is to use thermals to fly. - PG, AKA Paragliding, AKA free flight: Using a very similar or even identical type of wing, the pilot finds a high launch location, launches into the wind and then uses rising air currents to remain airborne as desired. This is true gliding. - PPC AKA Powered Parachuting: Very similar to PPG, the wing is different. These are parachutes - generally more square vs. the elongated shape of the paragliding wing, and have somewhat different flight characteristics from the paragliding wings. - Parasailing: generally a boat towing a tethered person behind it using something that looks like an old style round parachute. We have nothing to do with this. - FAR 103: Rules which govern these "ultralight vehicles" if they weigh under 254 lbs, can carry 1 person (except for training) and maximum 5 gallons of fuel. No license or training is required so the FAA's philosophy is do what you want just don't involve anyone else in the risk. - PPC as Light Sport: some PPCs are much larger & heavier than 254lbs, can carry one passenger and more fuel. These operate under the FAA rules for light sport aircraft and require FAA approved licensing and training. This post is mostly about paramotoring. I could probably explode this post with anecdotes and comments but lets say that my first foray into ham radio was around the time of my first PPG flight. My instructor was using (what I later found out was) a Baofeng radio (on what I later found out was not in the ham band) and he had three of them. One in my pocket and two in his hand - the transmissions were one way only. Both of the Baofengs in his hands failed to transmit as soon as I was a more than about a hundred feet away (I assume the finals had died). I didn't care. I was flying. Assuming the link works here, this was my first flight after several months - total of about 40 hours of practicing. For more - and much better - YT videos about PPG, search for Tucker Gott. In the meantime I have become a licensed ham (passed all three tests in one evening) and I enjoy calling my local repeater from 100 miles away and several thousand feet up with the "/air mobile" appended. As a PPG pilot and ham operator, I really feel the responsibility to educate my fellow pilots on the intricacies of legal communications. I have heard stories of instructors who were triangulated on the ham bands, received a pink letter from the local ham club and from the FCC. Problem solved. But what we pilots really need is standardization. If there were some way to get the community to agree on what to use as a communications standard, this would be a lot less of an issue. - AV Radios are expensive and they just don't have the un-used frequencies we can use to chit-chat and talk about the flight - Most common is probably cell phone to cell phone; we just call each other when we want to chat. - Most of us have some kind of noise canceling Bluetooth headset, usually Sena, but that stuff does get expensive and getting it into both ham and av radios is almost a masters thesis. - With the Bluetooth headsets, some of us communicate using those directly from pilot to pilot. But they aren't usable for training due to range and lag issues. - A lot of us have Baofengs - they are cheap and if we drop or break them, it won't break the bank. But while a lot of us have them, I have seen few of them actually being used. As a suggestion to the ham community, if you know where one or more pilots are launching, go there and watch and introduce yourself. Offer assistance getting into ham radio and chat with them. We usually don't mind gabbing with observers, and having them hear a friendly informing voice may be a positive thing for both activities.
KW4ZW wrote: "If there were some way to get the community to agree on what to use as a communications standard, this would be a lot less of an issue." Coordination of frequency and PL tone is the first step to a communications standard. Here are some suggestions for hams who are PG/PPG/Para pilots using 2 meter FM: Frequency: Program these 4 widely-recognized 2m simplex frequencies into the channel memory of all your radios. Use one of them as a calling frequency, or starting point. "The Para Primary Channel", suggestion: 147.510 MHz. Channel Frequency Programming: Channel 1 / 147.510 MHz, PL=100 Hz, FM (Para Primary) Channel 2 / 146.535 MHz, PL=100 Hz, FM, Channel 3 / 146.550 MHz, PL=100 Hz, FM Channel 4 / 146.595 MHz, PL=100 Hz, FM PL Tone: Program 100 Hz Tone Squelch (aka CTCSS or PL) in every radio on every one of the above channels. PL=100 Hz is easy to remember. This CTCSS / PL tone (Continuous Tone-Coded Squelch System) will keep you from picking up interference, intermod garbage, and stray conversations that aren't intended for your fellow ham pilots and ham ground crew. This HT feature transmits a 100 Hz sub-audible tone. Then, the HT receiver only opens its squelch when it hears the 100 Hz sub-audible tone. Mode: Program your radios for FM rather than NFM. It is louder and clearer for long distance. Contingency plan: If you have a problem on channel 1, simply get your fellow ham pilots switch to channel 2, and so on... make an agreement that if you lose each other, you will return to channel 1 and start over. Radio Check: Always radio check all your radios on all the frequencies before relying on them. Don't just check them at a close distance. Check them from about a quarter mile away. If you can't talk a quarter mile on the ground, then you should find out what is wrong before relying on them in flight.
"But what we pilots really need is standardization." Mark .. thank you for your contribution to the conversation. Yes, with a relatively "new sport" that is gaining traction quickly (new in that there are lots of folks getting into the fold quickly and becoming a popular past time) PPG does need a standardization. There are several authorized by the FCC that do not require a license and no test : Family Radio Service (FRS) Low Power Radio Service (LPRS) Multi-Use Radio Service (MURS) Citizens Band Trainers cover all aspects of safety by reviewing equipment prior to flight, obtaining the correct equipment, maintaining repairs, etc. The Trainers and the national PPG Organizations / Forum should also teach the PPG Community what is available for legal communications and which areas to either avoid or obtain a license. "Train the Trainers". Start at the beginning with the right way and the student will always be in the good. Additionally, PPG forums such as yours would be a valuable tool to educate the PPG community. I understand Baofeng radios are inexpensive and easily obtainable. That in itself is not justification to violate the law. Consider that PPG pilots may spend $4,500 - $8,000 for used equipment and as much as $15,000 for new. And then the repair / replacement costs of the gas engine and the wing ... the argument that an additional $500 - $1,000 for a "legal / licensed" radio doesn't hold water. Tucker Gott seems like a personable, charismatic young man. Even he has demonstrated his willingness to violate rules though : drop items while flying; flying close to other aircraft (FAA took notice by his own admission); flying above another PPG pilot and touching that pilot's wing with his body. I don't believe Tucker is a good choice for PPG ambassador although the "fun" of the hobby in general terms can be observed in his videos. Thank you for the invitation to observe the pilots flying and engage in conversation. The same invitation is extended to all PPG pilots. Seek out the local Amateur Radio Club in your area. Go to a meeting and learn how to obtain a Technician Class Amateur Radio License. The Ham community would welcome new members to the fold. What Amateur Radio does not need are additional rule violators and QRM'ers. And Mark ... we know you are not the Pilot who is causing the problems with ham radio. Please don't take any comments in this thread personally. Anytime any topic is discussed where personal interests are involved ... there will be some heartfelt comments that either aren't correctly verbalized or are said in haste. We all want acceptance - what can you do (or someone else) to assist both sides towards the goal ? Right is still right and wrong is still wrong. 73
Nota Bene (to all, a beneficial notice) the above. "§95.2707 Airborne use of MURS not authorized. Notwithstanding the provisions of §95.307, MURS operation is not authorized aboard aircraft in flight."
That still does not place burden on the LEGAL users of the amateur band or responsibility for illegal activity of others. It would be unreasonable for the LEGAL users of 2 meters to expect that while carrying on the permissible activities of their licenses they would find interlopers ON the band as well. This also goes to the expectation that legally licensed users of the amateur bands would have to stand by FOR the operations of interlopers by the strict interpretation of Part 97 (must not create interference to other(s) simply because of the presence of unlicensed operators on the band. The meaning of that was under the assumption that the operations of ALL parties are operating legally within the parameters of their licenses. IOW, legal vs legal. It does not give protection to illegal operators. Now once the legal operators on 2 meters were aware that there was an emergency (Mayday, Pan, or other stated emergency) it would be behoove said amateurs to cease their QSO and render all assistance; its just common sense. I don't believe that the facts, in the given scenario, would create a legal problem for the licensed users of 2 Meters. Such operators must assume the burden of knowing that the use of 2 meter amateur gear requires a license same as if they picked up police radios and starting using them.
No, don't do that. Instead, initiate a QSO, or make a legal call to another station. It is OK to talk right over the top of them; they have NO legal right to BE there to start with. Simply trying to key them out *may* create the "illegal" interference to other stations and could be interpreted as "frivilous". You have a perfect right to operate in spite of, over the top of, illegal stations. Get a group together. Organize a simplex net. Arrange some QSO's right during the time of the interlopers' operations. This would give them, perhaps, the idea that they weren't supposed to BE there.
This kind of stuff is simply irritating and pointless. Talking over them will only have them changing frequencies, and even if you follow them it will not bring them into compliance. LPRS: is not intended for our purpose and no equipment is readily available MURS: is not legal for airborne use and 2 W is not enough power in all circumstances. FRS: is also not allowed for enough power CB: Antenna size becomes a challenge and AM is not the best quality Agree completely and improving the training will help. However, there is currently no standard in the PPG community of what we should be using so no instructor can at this point do anything but warn. To compound that, there is no requirement for anyone flying a vehicle under FAA part 103 to obtain any kind of training. People can and do "self-train" in this sport. Tucker makes great videos about the sport and is fairly circumspect about how he flies and what he posts. I believe he is the best source to see how flying works and why we do it. The FAA has been contacted several times regarding his flying but, AFAIK, he has never been censured by the FAA for doing something wrong. Observers often worry about what we do but often don't understand how or why we are allowed to do it the way we do. There are others who post videos in YT including a few who are absolutely out of compliance with FAA and FCC rules, and who also demonstrate intentional disregard for safety but there are probably not so many of those. For some great entertainment around PG (that is without the motor), this guy probably produces the best videos anywhere around the personal airflight environment. I often discuss the options of getting the ham ticket with my fellow pilots but so far I have been unsuccessful in getting any interest. However, I think if a couple of local hams would set up some com gear and chat with some pilots at a fly-in (where PPG pilots congregate to fly together) some interest in ham radio could be generated. Take things personally? Never! It's the internet. I am glad this discussion is starting though. I think the two activities intersect well and improving PPG communications would be a great benefit. All great ideas but the biggest hindrance is getting PPG pilots to understand that they need to get a ham license. Get past that and the problem is basically solved. Yeah, also a great idea. My instructor and I did that. After my first flight. That was when he discovered that two of his three radios had failed finals. Surprise. But like I say (and he said), I didn't care, I was flying!
As a licensed Ham, and GMRS operator, I would recommend you fly guys using FRS/GMRS. With the new Part 95 rules, (just revised last year) a licensed GMRS user can run 5 Watts FM or NFM on channels 1-7, and they are compatible with non-licensed FRS, which is now allowed up to 2 Watts NFM on those channels. Channels 8-14 are the 'low power' channels, limited to a half-watt NFM for all users. Licensed GMRS users are allowed up to 50 Watts FM or NFM on channels 15-22, and non-licensed FRS users are allowed 2 Watts NFM on those channels as well. Licensed GMRS users are also allowed to set up repeaters on channels 15-22, with the input 5MHz up, just like other UHF services. FRS users are not allowed on repeaters. All it takes to obtain a GMRS license is US citizenship, and $75 for a 10-year ticket. No test. Opinion: Stay away from channel 1, since most of the kids run there, and stay away channel 3 since the prepper paramilitary types use/abuse that one. For standardization, try the sevens - channel 7, and channel 17, using CTCSS (privacy code) 77Hz. CTCSS tone codes are different for different brands of FRS/GMRS radios, so look in the manual, or online. Hundreds of radios are available for this service, ranging in quality from kid junk to world-class. Many have headset input jacks, and will run VOX mode like you will need. Mobile rigs are also available, check out Midland MTX 'Micro Mobile' series. The new combined FRS and GMRS service is what CB should have been all along. (...and actually evolved from the old "Class-A Citizen's Band" service.) I guess the next question would be if the rules allow FRS or GMRS use from aircraft. MURS from aircraft is specifically prohibited. With a quick search, I cannot find such a restriction on GMRS. Does anyone wish to look this up?
Somebody needs to read Part 95. https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?&mc=true&node=se47.5.95_12133&rgn=div8
I think that makes sense. Considering the 2W allowance under FRS, it would probably be the easiest to implement among PPG pilots and still maintain some semblance of legality (many of us have Baofengs and most of us who don't will probably know what they are). I'm going to try to start testing this concept on future flights, but I also think antennas are a possible source of a problem. I've found that while flying with the handheld in my pocket and PTT on my finger, the radio becomes fairly directional. I may need to get with my local ham community to get some ideas for better antenna installations. https://www.federalregister.gov/doc...-radio-service-reform#sectno-citation- 95.307 Personal radio service is permitted aboard aircraft.
So ... I've been communicating with members of a nationwide PPG Pilots forum ( https://www.facebook.com/groups/paramotor/ ). Most of the conversation was with Mark Ingman KW4ZW. I believe he may be a moderator with the PPG Forum. Attached you will find a transcript copy of the exchanges. Most of the conversation was polite and a good exchange of ideas was realized. Please take a few minutes to review the posted exchanges and reach your own conclusion. Two .JPG images are also included which outline the deleted posts.
