New Kenwood TS-890S HF Transceiver

So what did I specifically post that is not a fact?

The Kenwood TS-890 IS a superhet.

According to Rob Sherwood the deviations, for the IC series radios at least, were all corrected by software enhancements which would lead one to believe that all of the models currently being sold would meet the stated performance. Keep in mind that there is a certain tolerance in all components so some variance between two of the same analog models is not inconceivable. Therfore, I would say the chances of the SDR having very close tolerance is higher than the analog representatives.

Looking at the Ic-7300 and the IC-7610, the noise floor is -133db and 132db respectively without pre-amplification or dithering of the bit stream, the Elecraft KsX is -123db. Those are facts. That is, in every case more than sufficient sensitivity for weak signal work. And that is also a fact.

Superhets also have limitations because of , component tolerances, component noise, filter blow by (although very small these days), LO phase noise ( a second sample of the K3 had to be tested with an improved HFO to correct that problem.) Fact. Your K3S requires the (expensive) Ultra low noise synthesizer option in order to make the specs on Sherwoods list, that cranks the price up will above the Ic-7610 which is becoming a very popular rig. Fact.

The FT-1000 was a really good contest radio for many years but it's day is gone and the rigs you mentioned are also getting long in the tooth. I'm sure Elecraft would like to know how to up their game. Maybe a re-design using an H-mode mixer followed by a digital platform. I don't know, but I do know that software defined radio is the future from a cost vs performance standpoint it simply cant be beat. The manufacturing costs for SDR are less which means more profit. ADC's are getting better every day, and FPGA's are getting higher in density and faster at the same time. I don't see analog radios lasting too much longer but for the foreseeable future I see the Kenwood rig at the top of the heap. Not a fact yet, but very likely in the near future.

 

The beauty of Elecraft gear is that it allows you to grow into, upgrade, downgrade or update your station as needed. Nobody else offers that modular flexibility. I started with a basic K3 and added second receiver. Now I can update select components to K3S standards. For example new low noise synths. I can pull the second RX out (since I rarely use it) and sell it and reinvest that into another upgrade or update. Yes, you pay a little more upfront for this type of gear but in the long run you don't have to rebuy a radio to get new features or functionality. I'm talking myself out of buying a new Flex 6600M !

 

Agreed on all points about the Elecraft gear. What really scares me about the Flex rigs is that the software is proprietary, it isn't open source like the ANAN equipment. When the software is no longer developed and when the OS gets changed or updated, there is no guarantee that your SDR will work. You may have a very expensive door stop or wheel chock, unless you have the Maestro or one of the "M" models with a front pannel. You really have to look at the Sherwood Engineering tests and read the annotations to understand the results. There are multiple results for sensitivity, noise floor, and dynamic range. If you follow along with the annotations, you can see that the high dynamic range figures apply ONLY when "dithering" and "randomization" are enabled, but this lowers the sensitivity to a point where you may be unable to hear weak signals on the higher bands where the background QRN is low. Switching off the dithering and randomization (Icom calls it "IP+") will raise the sensitivity, but the dynamic range will drop well below that of the better superhet rigs. With an SDR, you have to choose sensitivity OR dynamic range, with a superhet you can have both at the same time. This is a definite advantage when the bands are full of strong signals (like maybe during a contest weekend) and you are trying to work a weak station that is just above the band noise. The FPGA will be overloaded by the sum voltage of ALL of the signals that are present at its input, rendering the weak signals unreceivable. SDRs are probably the future for a lot of equipment because they are cheap to make, that's why the manufacturers are promoting them so heavily, and their performance will probably be "good enough" for a lot of people. Superhets will remain the top performers for a long time, we'll see how well the new Kenwood model compares to the current rigs after Sherwood publishes his tests.

 

"Your K3S requires the (expensive) Ultra low noise synthesizer option in order to make the specs on Sherwoods list, that cranks the price up will above the Ic-7610 which is becoming a very popular rig. Fact."

Be advised that the "Ultra low noise synthesizer" as you name it, is not an option, as you state, but standard with even the base K3S. I will admit we all get emotional about our favorite brand, myself included.

 

[QUOTE/]Be advised that the "Ultra low noise synthesizer" as you name it, is not an option, as you state, but standard with even the base K3S. I will admit we all get emotional about our favorite brand, myself included.[/QUOTE]
He confused the reference oscillator with the synthesizer. Just one of many things that he's confused about or doesn't understand. That's why I quit responding to him. Never argue with a fool.

 

I stumbled across some advance info for the ts-890. See attached PDF.
No guarrantee this is exactly what it'll be like ofc, but it should be close.
....and it has APF for CW! That is the one feature on my ts930 that I miss on my ts590.

 

Thank you for the PDF, very helpful.

 

Interesting discussion. Given my recent experience with the TS-590SG in my pickup truck, mostly running counties on CW, I might just try the TS-890S in that role. My mobile setup is installed on an auto-desk with a shelf, so swapping one radio for another is fairly easy. It takes up the entire passenger seat ( with amplifier on a shelf behind the seat ). My main concerns would be CW functionality and noise handling. That's what led me to the TS-590SG after trying the FT-991 and FT-450D in the truck. For me, the TS-590SG is so much easier to operate while running counties on CW. Hopefully the TS-890S will offer even more improvement.

 

The UK main dealer for Kenwood has just announced the price for the ts890

£4999.95

Seriously? I reckoned they'd push the boat out to £4k but .....

Still claiming they'll have them on the shelves in time for the Newark Hamfest in September

 

AFAIK there isn't a radio made today that has analog audio processing. Everything is done in DSP,even APF.

 

[QUOTE="
I see no reason why the new Kenwood TS-890 shouldn't be among the better performing receivers. The fact that it's a superhet instead of a direct-sampling SDR gives it a big advantage toward that goal.

73[/QUOTE]
What's the difference between a direct-sampling receiver and a superhet?

 

I'm a DXer. I had a TS870SAT, that I loved, before converting to Elecraft, first a K3, now a K3S, all without a second receiver. I have enough trouble listening to one receiver without needing two. I'm on the Mixed and Phone Honor Roll and have 9-Band DXCC, all worked with medium power, modest antennas and from within 10 miles of the same location.

As a matter of fact, I loaned my K3S to Rob Sherwood, so the numbers of his sample 1 are from my radio. It's near the top of the sorted list, which is all important to many, not so much to me (or Rob, note that he doesn't use any Elecraft radios) If this new Kenwood is anywhere close to the promise---and has decent TX IMD performance---I'm in the market.

 

What's the difference between a direct-sampling receiver and a superhet?[/QUOTE]
They're apples and oranges different. Advantages and disadvantages to each. GTS (Google that stuff)

 

The K3S has no synthesizer "option." The current synthesizer, standard in K3S and later S/N K3s, was offered as an upgrade to earlier K3 radios. The price is the price, it's not "cranked up" to meet the specs on Rob's list. As I've stated elsewhere, the K3S Rob first tested was my radio that I loaned to him for the test.

 

They're apples and oranges different. Advantages and disadvantages to each. GTS (Google that stuff)[/QUOTE]
Hmmm. They both mix (sample) an incoming signal, convert it to another frequency for further amplification, filtering and demodulation. So I repeat the question.