Should QRZ allow discussion of Politics and Religon?

I have invented nothing, Albert; I merely observe, report and comment.

On a tightly-moderated board, not only would those engaging in scandalous personal attacks and libel be banned forthwith but the posts that led to their eviction would be excised. Neither happens here.

You said it yourself:

We do not fundamentally disagree on the substance of the matter but rather on the details.

What is evident from the tone and content of many posts in this thread is that many would prefer that PJ and the other forums be administered with a "take no prisoners" moderation philosophy as opposed to the present level of permissiveness. Deleting forums because a few recalcitrants are attempting to turn them into RRAP clones is a band-aid solution and ignores the real problem.

 

So far the vote looks to be 4/1 for removing it...

However this makes NO sense. If you dont like it, why go there???
Does nobody else find it really really bizzare that someone would care one way or another if you dont like it, don't go there! Duh!

"mommy mommy my head keeps hurting."

"Well Junior, stop banging your head on the wall".


How about a 3rd option..? Make it an "opt in", so:

I can ask, and receive access to it.

The general public/unlicensed cant see it. So newbies to AR don't see "The Dark Side".

Folks that are ok in other forums, but can't seem to hold civilized discourse there can be banned from this area without banning from the entire site, so you have a little more leeway in keeping it to a dull roar.

 

True, but I'm not sure they have to. In another thread, I brought up a similar issue where someone posted a couple of tags that said "rj=flaming macaca" and "rj=flaming sand nigga."

If I was a moderator, I would have immediately banned the person who posted those tags. Indeed, I don't know if that was done or not.

Once folks began to understand that there are limits, as opposed to what we now have where pretty much anything goes, I believe folks would begin to respect the need for better "manners." The result would be less need to decide if calling an idea "stupid" is the same as calling the poster the same.

I've seen forums where the offending person was banned and the moderator made note of it in the same thread where the offending material was posted. That gives everyone notice that they better behave.

I see no reason that wouldn't work here and I'm sure there are folks willing to help do that. I know I would rather than see the section banned altogether.

............Bob

 

It needed to go bye-bye -- and did.

Agreed! All things come to an end.

 

I agree with the majority who indicate this is an AR site and should therefore confine itself to amateur related topics. It is my opinion that the "vitriol" that Fred notes is merely a reflection of what we hear from time to time on the bands. The civility that existed 40 years ago in amateur radio disappeared sometime ago IMHO. When I was first licensed in 1969 some of the nonsense you hear today was unheard of. The main difference between then and now-the internet.

Steve, WD8NPL

 

Politics and Religion

I agree with someone previously, I was first licensed in 1965, and the harshness of the american public has moved into ham radio. During the good days of HR, there was no such crap as you hear on the bands today.

I don't as a rule give a flying flip what anybody thinks about a candidate, and I sure don't want to hear about their religion. If you are a religious person and do what is right by others, you don't have to brag about it. Those that need to know already know about you.

 

It does seem that way, at least in the posts that essentially say, "Nix the forum, politics and religion don't belong on an Amateur Radio board, etc." without much further elaboration. There are many respondents who have expressed a desire for stepped-up moderation of the forum in lieu of discontinuing it.

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There is an old chestnut often repeated when discussing writing for publication and handling rejection of submitted work: "They're rejecting your work, they're not rejecting you personally." Now, that might sound good in print but to someone passionate about his/her work, your work is an extension of you and, in your mind, one and the same. To say that an argument made by poster A is "stupid" is, in the mind of A, the same as saying A is "stupid." Because, as everyone knows, stupid people make stupid arguments, don't they? (rhetorical question for illustrative purposes)

If someone posts something that is inaccurate or at variance with known facts, beginning a rebuttal with "That was a load of horsescat" tends to reduce the level of discourse to gutter level in a matter of seconds and all proceeds downhill from there.

What cheapens and poisons discourse in a forum is when personal attacks and obscenity/profanity are allowed to propagate unchecked. Saying, "Your proposition is incorrect and here is why..." is fundamentally different from saying, "You libs/cons are full of scat and you're all a bunch of [fill in expletive/descriptive]." It is the latter that needs to be squelched.

The general rules of civilized debate allow participants to strike hard blows but not foul ones. It is the job of moderators (referees) to identify those who repeatedly strike foul blows and, if necessary, eject them from the game. It is that philosophy I believe should be followed everywhere on this board but especially in regard to the topics of religion and politics.

An old friend said to me, many years ago, "When it comes to religion and politics I am perfectly willing to discuss them but I refuse to argue either one." He understood perfectly.

 

My Thoughts about this poll

I wished this had been two seperate polls. I would vote Politics NO! but Religion would get a Yes VOTE ! There our many Christian nets on the air waves. There are many missionaries out in the world that use Amateur Radio to keep in touch with others around the world. GOD BLESS 73's kc5wxc

 

Nobody said it was the law. It is simple common courtesy. (Something sorely lacking today - on the air, on line, in print and in person.) My elmer was quite adamant about it - two subjects that are never discussed on the air. Never.

There is far, far more to Amateur Radio than the FCC regs.

 

That's all well and good, but absolutely no reason to bring religion into this forum, which is what the question was.

 

Depending on the people, sometimes politics is touchier than religion. As I mentioned, amomg hams, I don't see a problem with the outlet as a lot of times a forum is as social as is the technical discussion. I've been a member of a few Linux forums as well, and it's all about the cameraderie. I know some guys that will still remember me at some of those places even if I haven't posted for 5 years due to the respect more from the technical stuff, and they willl usually forget the off-posts.
In a completely different vein, I just ran across (in my travels) a girl who attended Liberty College in VA, which was run by Jerry Falwell and is a hotbed of conservativism.
I knew a guy (PhD) who teaches there, and she said the name was familiar and he probably is still there. I knew him in the early 80's, and he was my neighbor in a very small town in upstate NY. Though he had his principles & I had mine, we always had good philosophical chats, and I was always more of a Zen guy and offbeat, but we did touch bases on a lot of common philosophy. He even gave me copies of some of his work, his dissertation on Poe and things like that. So I say it's not always a cut & dry attitude that matters, but it's good to see that people differ. Most opinions come from conscience, not a "greed" ethic, and most of conscience, I believe, comes from the heart. So you have to look at where everyone is coming from. And there are a lot of hams here, I see, that make up a good composite of that spectrum not just an agreed-upon limited ethic. Of course, there are those just looking for a slam fest and I don't see any value in that.

 

By the numbers it seems to be shifting a bit. The "ditch" the forum crowd is still winning by a huge margin but if you remember the first couple of days, it was running about 80-20. Now we are looking at 76-24. A small shift!

 

It must'a been the trip to Europe.

Oh wait . . . wrong forum . . .

 

It may also be beneficial to start looking through other forums as well.. the vitriol does not end with the political boards...

 

Absolutely. I get really tired of the condescending non-answers from some of the veterans.