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Proposed Shortwave Broadcast Station Prompts Objection

Discussion in 'Amateur Radio News' started by W0PV, Jul 9, 2020.

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  1. N7KO

    N7KO Ham Member QRZ Page

    Ham Bands as all of us know including the HF Ham bands are allocated for Amature radio use, non profit.

    If they are talking about HF bands that are not near the armature radio portion then we have nothing to say, it will be the FCC and the Trade commission Am I right?
     
  2. W1YW

    W1YW Ham Member QRZ Page

    SEC.

    Not Trade:)

    Yes; this is not a 'ham' issue.
     
  3. WQ4G

    WQ4G Ham Member QRZ Page

    I said unregulated. I am sure that you comply with at least SOME regulations...

    There have been thousands of people killed and maimed, in the past, by unscrupulous and unregulated capitalists. The unscrupulous capitalists remain. And, if left unregulated they would destroy this country in the name of the all mighty dollar. Some of it's going on right now as I speak...

    Scan down the list at this link and you may know why regulations exist to protect the innocent from the greedy...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_industrial_disasters

    Now, I'm not saying that all those disaster were the result of greed... But, unfortunately a LOT of them were.

    Capitalism has to work for everyone or it doesn't work for anyone. Henry Ford knew that.

    Dan WQ4G
     
    N0EE likes this.
  4. WQ4G

    WQ4G Ham Member QRZ Page

    But, you are writing about capitalists who CARE.

    Don't fool yourself. A lot of really rich capitalists don't care about you and me. They are not patriots and are not loyal to this country. If and when conditions in this country deteriorate to the point that it is untenable for the rich capitalists to stay here, they will simply move to another country and leave me and you holding the bag...

    Think about it... If the rich capitalists really cared about the U.S. (if they were loyal patriots to this country) do you think they would be moving their factories to China and India? They don't move the production facilities to China because they want to sell you cheap stuff... They move to China so that they can put more $ in their pockets.

    You say a 'free people' are able to leave... I say it's free people with money that are able to leave. Everyone else gets left behind...

    Dan WQ4G
     
    WA5VGO likes this.
  5. AB3NA

    AB3NA Ham Member QRZ Page

    The part that doesn't make sense to me is that, while the "first-bit latency" may be low, the following bits just trickle in. In HF, I think it's safe to say that you're not going to get more than 4 bits per second per Hz (minus forward-error correction overhead), that's less than 40 kbps in 10 kHz. A ticker symbol is a few characters, so maybe ~20 bits, and a price is maybe encoded in 10 bits, and just to round things off let's add 10 bits of framing, checksum, whatever, that's just 1000 messages per second. The Quotrek system ran at 4,800 baud and was fast enough for human decision-making. That's much too slow for modern trading. It doesn't make sense to share quotes this way.

    The proposed HF system could only be useful (in my opinion) if it's sending execution commands keyed to a pre-shared order book. That is, use the Internet to set up a book of hypothetical trades, known only to the parties at each end of the HF link, and then use the HF signal to say "(execute)12, 55, 42, 99..." The received signal would be of no value to anyone without real-time access to the book.
     
    K7JEM and W0PV like this.
  6. AB3NA

    AB3NA Ham Member QRZ Page

    By the way, DRM promised up to 72 kbps useful content in a 20 kHz channel, so 3.6 bits per second per Hz is a reasonable upper limit. But the proposed system would combine audio broadcasts with "some data", so they'd only get a fraction of that. Unless, you know, they changed their mind after building it. Remember how there was a "satellite mobile phone system" (LightSquared) a decade ago which was proposed to operate near the GPS frequencies? As a satellite system, it was fine, but then they discovered that it would work So Much Better from urban towers in addition to (instead of) satellites, and they were so disappointed when it turned out that they would also create So Much Interference to GPS users from those "afterthought" tower transmitters and the FCC shut them down. But, they re-organized and (according to Wikipedia) may be back in business, over the objections of everyone in the GPS business (including vendors and users). The Wikipedia article on "Ligado Networks" is a case-study in telecom chicanery.
     
  7. AC0GT

    AC0GT Ham Member QRZ Page

    They don't have to care about you and me individually, they just have to care about the group. Someone that's cheated out of their money on a bad deal will warn others not to be a victim, and that's not how a capitalist works. A capitalist isn't going to sell medications that can kill because dead people don't come back for more the next time they get sick.

    Someone that is willing to drive others into poverty for their own wealth is not a capitalist, they'd be more accurately described as a mercantilist. A mercantilist believes in a finite amount of wealth and to become wealthy means someone else has to lose wealth. A capitalist recognizes that the ability to create wealth is nearly infinite. Wealth can come from dirt. Sand can be turned into glass. Fertile soil can bring crops for food and cloth. From dirt can come clay, iron, and all kinds of things of value if someone is willing to put in the effort to extract it. There's effectively no limit on one's ability to find dirt or some other raw material. Add some thought to that dirt and wealth springs from it.

    By "leave" I don't mean only moving out of town, or a state, or a nation. By "leave" I mean exit the store, exit the business partnership, free to leave the influence of someone that is not providing a beneficial trade in goods and services. Leaving town is one way to get distance from cheaters and thieves, but it can also mean crossing the street.

    Look around you at all the "stuff" that capitalism brought to us. That stuff was dirt not long ago. Capitalists <ahem> capitalized on that availability of dirt and human thought to bring us whatever it is that we see as having value.
     
    WQ4G likes this.
  8. WQ4G

    WQ4G Ham Member QRZ Page

    I do agree with everything you have put fourth. And, generally, you have described and defined a capitalistic system in a perfect world.

    Perhaps you perceive all the good in people and I am only seeing the bad. But, in the real world, Capitalists are 'in it' for one reason and one reason only. That reason being to make money and LOTS of it (that's why we call them CAPITALISTS). And, it having absolutely nothing to do with the 'efficient allocation of resources' as the Economics books purport. Perhaps in the past this was true. But, it's much more difficult (IMO) to make that argument today. For example, what 'resource' did Bernie Madoff allocate efficiently? How about ENRON? Or what about APPLE? Do they allocate resources 'efficiently'? For what purpose do they operate? How efficient is it to dig a natural resource up out of the ground, make something out of it, use it once, and then bury (dispose of) the thing in a Landfill when we're done with it?

    BTW, I read somewhere (although I can not find the source at this time) that Bernie Madoff claims that (right now) there are at least a half-dozen Wall Street firms (like Goldman Sachs) doing the same thing that he was jailed for. Any one of which could be the antecedent of a total systemic collapse. Why is the SEC not putting a stop to this (dangerous) fraud? Hummm... Could the answer be MONEY and GREED?

    Dan WQ4G
     
  9. AC0GT

    AC0GT Ham Member QRZ Page

    What's the point you are trying to make? That capitalism is bad? Or that not all capitalists are good? Capitalists are by definition a good because a capitalist is someone that practices lawful trade for the benefit of both parties. People that lie, cheat, steal, manipulate, coerce, or whatever bad it is you try to place on capitalists are not capitalists. Yes, this is an idealized definition but all definitions have to have bounds or words don't mean anything. Someone that is driving others into poverty to enrich themselves are not capitalists. That's the philosophy of a mercantilist, or a subset of mercantilists, or of a tyrant. Those using the force of the state to enrich themselves are often described as "crony capitalists", but it's really just a kind of socialism.

    Money is not some evil, it's the means we use to assist in trade. Greed is a vice but we need some level of greed to survive as we are not angels without need of food or shelter. A person that just gives away all their stuff will soon die of exposure. Capitalism uses greed to our advantage. Greed means both sides of a transaction will want to see a benefit. Maybe that benefit is knowing someone will feel better, or reciprocate in kindness later, but the transaction is still voluntary or it's not capitalism.
     
  10. K7JEM

    K7JEM Ham Member QRZ Page

    Bernie Madoff was not a capitalist, he was a crook. Criminals come in all sorts of political persuasions.
     
  11. W1YW

    W1YW Ham Member QRZ Page

    Dishonest people find ways to exploit whatever system they live under. In capitalism we usually call it 'greed'. In communo-socialism, its called 'corruption'.
     
    KE5JDJ, WQ4G and K7JEM like this.
  12. WQ4G

    WQ4G Ham Member QRZ Page

    The only point I am really trying to make here, is that when someone with a lot of money comes along and decides that there are a few cool billions to make by taking unauthorized excursions into the Ham Bands, that they will at least try it.

    Oh, here's one now....

    https://amsat-uk.org/2020/07/17/unauthorized-transmissions-in-144-mhz-satellite-allocation/

    Don't know if the company is making billions or not. But, wondering (myself) if these devices are operating in the U.S. I went to the shack, turned on the SDR receiver, tuned to the lower portion of the 2 meter band, and there it is - a carrier just above the bottom of the band. I have not tried to locate the transmitter yet because I just discovered it. But, I've listened to it long enough to know that there are no call signs involved.

    And, in the grand scheme of things, an involuntary transaction may or may not be 'capitalism' per se. But, it IS still considered an 'economic' transaction...

    Dan WQ4G
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2020
  13. K0XU

    K0XU XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    The objection is that they suspect that the station would be used to send encrypted data for hire. Not an authorized activity with this type of license, in this part of the spectrum. License they are applying for is for broadcast to the public, not communications for hire.
     
  14. W1YW

    W1YW Ham Member QRZ Page

    You need to read the dozens of posts that preceded yours, that show the fallacy of that assumption.
     
  15. K0XU

    K0XU XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    I did not say that I suspected, I said they did. I have no horse in this race.
     

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