New Jersey's revised cell phone law

If that is true, then should it not also apply to police officers?

Is there any justification to make an exception for them, and if so, could that same reasoning ever apply to a Ham Radio operator?

 

Sorry N2JBE, but the state DOES have the right. They are not regulating Amateur Radio, they are regulating operation of the motor vehicle. Please don't fall into the trap of thinking that 'Amateur Radio' is a magic phrase that protects all with some kind of spell from a Harry Potter movie.

As to New York, the last I heard, and I may not have it correct and/or current, K1CJS has it pretty close to correct. The HAM did win, but it cost him. From what I've read, and again I may not be current on this, NY law applies to ANY radio that can receive police or public service signals in a mobile. This STILL applies to Amateur Radio IF the rig in question receives public service. TECHNICALLY (or so I was led to believe) the law does NOT apply to radios or even scanners that do NOT have police, fire, etc frequencies in place and usable while driving. It must be capable of receive prohibited communications at that time, not just be possible to be programmed later. (Ie, frequencies in place in memory)

Hmm, I have one of the old 'card' type scanners. The Sears 5-band, like the SBE Optiscan only 16 channel. I could swap a card out in a second...

Actually, that's what a friend used to do when he had to go to Philly, since they were worse than even the UK. At one point, I heard Philladelphia police in the 70's raided Radio Shacks for any and all 12v and battery powered radios that could receive police...

But then, they are the same group that decided that the STATE permits for firearms didn't apply inside the city limits.

Mike

 

Agreed

Don't confuse two issues. As noted, the state is regulating vehicle safety, not the use of amateur radio. They are different animals.

First, the FCC exemption applies, concerning having an amateur radio transceiver (note those words!) in your vehicle, and using it *for amateur radio purposes.* The FCC exemption does not, in any way, cover the use of an amateur radio transceiver which is being used to cover public safety or other non-amateur radio frequencies. It is then a scanner, and falls under local scanner laws. Sorry, but that is fact.

Remember, that is the 'having of the transceiver in the vehicle.' It doesn't cover distracted use of that transceiver. That part falls under, as noted above, vehicle safety, and the FCC is not involved. Consequently there is nothing in any federal statutes that would prohibit a state from including amateur radio in its distracted driving laws. NJ did not have to exclude amateur radio from its law, either.

Think of it this way. There is no law prohibiting having a cell phone in your car. And there is no law prohibiting having an amateur radio in your vehicle, either.

So don't confuse the 'use' with the 'having.' If you have a ham transceiver, you are welcome to pull over on the shoulder and use it. Exactly the same as your cell phone, your CB, FRS, MURS, etc.

The FCC does not regulate driving safety. There is no FCC rule against using a hands-on cell phone while your vehicle is in motion!

Separate the issues, please. And read closely the FCC exemption on having an amateur radio transceiver in your vehicle. It in NO WAY protects you anywhere if you are using that radio to receive public safety frequencies! Be sure you understand that exemption.

 

The federal government is indeed responsible for the control and licensing of radio communication, and they're doing that specific job. But this control does *not* extend to regulating the *physical use* of operation. Your mobile ham rig is part of a motor vehicle, and that is the domain of the states. The legality of all of this has obviously been checked and coordinated between state and federal government. The same applies to antenna regulations, although the argument there is less clear. There may be an argument for regulating driving at the federal level, as in the case of aviation. The same might be true for medicine and education. In fact, there would be a powerful argument for doing so. But "federalism" (another term for the tradition and concept of "states' rights") has produced a different evolution in law-making and division of powers. Incidentally, all this applies to the concept of "federalism" originating in Switzerland in 1291, and which the US founding fathers borrowed and adopted in the American constitution. It's not a new idea.

But even if the federal government did take over responsibility for regulating motor vehicles and drivers, I think you assume too much in assuming that the federal government would allow hamming while driving. I suspect a federal law might be even tougher than what most of the states have legislated.

Be grateful for small mercies.

Bob HB9ASQ / WA2UPQ
International Broadcaster and Journalist
Licensed since 1961

 

Cell Phone Law

Greetings, all!

Here in CA I believe they exempted two way radios (push to talk type equipment).

Even before the cell phone ban, distracted driving was illegal. One would think that that would have been sufficient. Any law layered on top of that to target specifics, cell phones, reading the newspaper, shaving, whatever, seems like a waste of resources all around, except, perhaps, additional "revenue" from being able to tack extra violations onto that ticket. I can see where there might also be more uniforms out there who would elect to ticket, regardless of whether the driver is a ham or not, and let the courts sort it all out because it's easier. It happens. I've gotten tickets for parking in a no parking zone I wasn't parked in.

Bottom line, NO one should drive distracted, whether it be a ham or not. But let's face the unfortunate truth here: not all drivers are created equal. There are drivers out there who can handle their vehicles pretty well while communicating. Then there are the ones who can't seem to walk and chew gum at the same time. There are drivers who keep their attention on the road and drivers who pull straight out into traffic without stopping or even bothering to look first. I don't trust the latter even if I don't see a cell phone in their hand! I've come close to being hit by them way to many times! I always give them PLENTY of room on the road.

These "Cell Phone Laws" popping up from state to state seem to punish everyone for the actions of those few idiots. Perhaps it would be more useful to have laws that reflect diver's individual performance, or lack thereof. For example: if a driver is caught swerving out of their lane or pulling out without looking whilst holding a cell phone up to their head, an automatic ban on further cell phone use while driving for THAT DRIVER should come with the ticket, then send them off to traffic school just for good measure.
More stringent screening in the licensing process couldn't hurt either.

73

Emrad

 

You mean the same security measures that prevented the 2005 London subway bombings and the 2004 Madrid train bombings???

Whatever you say, Sparkie. . . . . . . I have to admire the way you didn't let objective reality get in the way of your gusty rhetoric.

New Jersey has always been a state with one set of rules and laws for the plebes and another for the elites (cf. Governor Corzine's car crash in 2007). Anyone want to bet that various New Jersey state officials (that is, "crooks") will continue to use their cell phones while driving and do so with impunity?

 

when i worked as a police officer in new jersey my men were on the cell phone all the time. when i say all the time; i had officers which ran up enormous amount of hours, thats right not minutes, hours on the phone while they were driving. I'm sure it has not stopped. here we go again a law which pertains to YOU not them. they were on the phones for pleasure not business. same as the regulations in the business, instead of taking care of the problem few, lets smack em all.
kb2rhn

 

Compendium of state laws

I think th esuggestion of someone creating a database of state laws to print out when mobiling is a great idea. I am driving across the USA this spring and plan to try and find all the laws, as well as a copy of the treaty authorising Canadian amateurs to operate in the states.

I tried asking on Yahoo questions if there was such a database and I got silly answers like "ham radio is now legal in all states, where have you been?

I must say I like the more intelligent level of conversation in this forum!

If anybody knows of laws in addition to the NJ one, maybe they coul dpost links here and we could all print them off to carry with us. It could save us hours in court!

73
Nigel
ve3id/g4ajq

 

God bless Texas

So far, only local cities " Handheld CELL PHONE restrictions IN SCHOOL ZONES"
but we are usually a couple of years behind the rest of the country..
73 from VENUS
W2BEN

 

I can't speak for Spain, but I do know about the UK. There is no residency control or personal ID system there, and once you're in the country - as has been the case in the US - you're free to do just about anything. In the rest of Europe (with which the British do not identify), every resident is registered, and is required to report changes of residency. It's virtually impossible to just "slip in and disappear". Some form of official, secure ID has always been required as well - just like what is being done now in the US...as a result of 9/11. Anyone with a shady background, or who is a potential or active "risk" is more easily trackable. Law-abiding citizens have nothing to fear and are not hounded. If the US had had such a system, there would be no crisis of illegal immigration today.

Old Europe has a long experience in dealing with terrorism and criminality. Just as an apt example: If someone here with an obviously suspect "ethnic" background were to request commercial airliner flight instruction without wanting to learn how to land, trust me - the police would have paid them a visit in short order. America - like Britain - has been crippled by political correctness, which has made it difficult to officially "profile" individuals.

America's "problem" is that it has known very little control and regulation in its young history. It's now coming to maturity. That - as in the case of any growing child - is not to the liking of everybody.

As for my "rhetoric", it's based on 40 years as a journalist and broadcaster. That gives me a few more on Rush Limbaugh. We're of the same ilk - just the politics and degree of worliness are different.

As I said, get used to it. It's going to get worse. America was once a beacon of freedom. But alas, that was idealistic and naive, and that freedom has been abused by some nasty people because of that fact. The beacon has gotten weak due to the reality of today's world. Things change - that's a natural law. And so it is with cell phoning while driving. Those regulations represent the laws of virtually all Western countries. Globalization is not just an economic concept; it also applies to law-making, like it or not.

As for New Jersey (and to be politically incorrect), it was and is still the home of the southern Italian mafia, which has left its mark on the local culture. That culture holds that "laws are meant to be broken". That's why this whole thread is a tempest in a tea cup; the NJ law will hardly be enforced. That's one of the most endearing qualities of my state, and I love it.

And lest I be considered "ethnically offensive", just look at my name.

73,
Bob (Zanotti) HB9ASQ / WA2UPQ

 

Then you should be even happier to have someone create a database of every county, city, town and village, because they all have their own laws and ordinances too.

Before our state made it a law to wear a seatbelt, some villages and cities made ordinances requiring seat belt use. (to the surprise of those that lived in cities without these laws who got pulled over and ticketed with a fine)

It wasn't a traffic ticket on your state record, but a big fine you had to send to the village.

 

NJ Radio Law Comment

Barney Phife is spelled F-i-f-e sir !

The only exemptions are for fire dept volunteers and callsign license plates.
If you dont have one, get one, my advise.
That way even if you get a ticket, you can fight it in court, the proof is in the paperwork.
This is why the FCC is full of lawyers....
73,

 

Thats why this is suposed to be a FREE Country and why we left England... Unfortunantly everyday we are moving more away from a FREE Country...

 

"Free" states.

Hello.

Every state has its policies.
In Texas, in the big cities, seat belt enforcement is almost a non-issue.
In the country, the cops go nuts over every little thing.
Big cities make very little money on traffic enforcement, as operating a legal system is expensive in urban areas, and, as the person who got the citation most likely lives there, a good chance of an appeal in the courtroom.
In the countryside, the reverse is true.
Out in bubbasville, they could care less what it is, CB radio, Amateur, FRS, whatever.
They only point out the use of such a device, but get you for improper lane control, failure to signal, failure to keep a hand on the wheel, driving while distracted, etc.
The cops do not need such a law, the fines for just that 4 is well over $600 in Texas.
So, get a bluetooth device, stick that in your ear, unless you have a better place, , and be done with it.
And, a LOT of trucking companies are now requiring hands free CB radios, thus the headsets and the like.
Cobra has taken the popular BluMic idea and adapted this to the Cobra 29 LTD.
Most trucking companies now limit, or even prohibit, Amateur Radio devices as a matter of employment policy.

 

My reason for putting it the way I did about New York City having a ban on all communication devices is that I was still living in NYC when they did it. At the time it was only in effect in the city. Shortly after I moved from my homeland, Nassau and Suffolk counties followed suit. I was not aware if the rest of the state had travled the same road. I do have a problem with most who use a cell phone while driving. I have wittnessed far to many traffic accidents because of some bonehead having a cell phone on one ear while driving and not paying attention. Heck, here in WPA I see the same thing all the time. My YL's daughter has her cell up to her ear the moment she puts the car in drive and a ciggarette in the hand she has on the wheel. She has had 3 accidents and has been caught speeding once. When I first moved to Pa I was working in Kittanning delivering mail. I would see all the HS kids driving away from school with a cell phone to the ear. I stood on a corner one day and watched 5 of them blow a stop sign not even looking to see if any traffic was approaching from any direction. One kid nearly ran over a elderly lady with a walker. He had the nerve to scream at her to get the *#%& off the street. On the other hand I have yet to see anyone who is operating a 2 way radio beit ham or cb cause a accident. Why? Because they do not have the radio held up to the ear. I know when I operate my 2M/70CM mobile rig in my car I place my mic on my lap after I finish a statement. And if needed I will sign off if traffic conditions require it.

As for the gentleman from NJ who takes offense to his home state being picked on, it is the fault of the voters for that happening. Just like your neighbors to the east and north (NY put Spitzer in office) you put Corzine in office. He like a few of those who are wanting to have the main suite at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave want total control of everyones everyday life. From how you light up your house to what kind of medical care you can have to how much of your hard earned salary you have to give up so some slacker who refuses to work can have the same lifestyle as you only because it is not fair that you have a great life and the slacker does not.

As far as having big brother security watching every move we make. It would not have made a bit of diffence about what happened on 911. They had the measures in place but allowed those type's of item's (boxcutters) to pass because they were not considered a threat to anyone's life. Now every time I go to a sporting event (Jets Bills football in Buffalo, Rangers Penguins hockey at the Igloo, Mets Pirates baseball at PNC) I get searched for anything and everything. This never happened to me when I lived in NYC prior to 911. Just for the record, I moved from NYC to WPA 2 months to the day of 911. So please do not tell me that a big brother security system would have kept my hometown safe on that horrific day.

Smokey Bear's saying about forest fires works just as well when it comes to keeping out a nanny government. "ONLY YOU!" Just in this case you have to vote.

I just spent my $.02 worth for the next 5 years.

73
Michael
KC2EGL
CW LIVES!!!!