Interfering with Declared Emergency Frequencies

On October 2nd, the FCC set aside 3873 and 7285 as emergency frequencies to be used for traffic regarding Hurricane Lili. The rules say these frequencies are to be protected 3 Khz either side.

Let' see...3873 + 3 = 3876. 3873 - 3 = 3870. And 7285 + 3 = 7288, while 7285 - 3 = 7282. Not to hard, just basic math.

Monitoring 7285 this morning in the first hour and a half of the net operations, there were ragchewers on 7288, and the Texas Traffic Net on 7282. Both frequencies were asked nicely to be cleared, as they were interfering with emergency traffic on 7285. Well, the guys on 7288 moved, only to be replaced by someone else. The Texas Net continued operations until they finished their business.

Sad part about all this is, I checked a few callsigns I heard, and most of them were EXTRA CLASS operators who have had their license for some time!

Come on guys...WAKE UP AND GET LEGAL!!!!!!!!!!

 

Howdy,
 It is interesting that you would mention math…..
 We also had two hams on 7.281 USB!  They couldn’t figure it out either.
 We were trying to fit 6kcs of signal into 4kcs of spectrum.  The FCC has been monitoring the situation very closely lately, and I can guarantee some letters are fixin’ to be mailed.
 Take care      Mark AD5CA

 

I don't think it's a matter of what class of license you are, I think it's a matter of information or the lack of same.  Don't assume all hams are on the internet where one can go to a web site and see the FCC has ordered the frequency cleared.  And not all hams are on the air everyday so word of mouth may not have reached them.  Finding a clear frequency on 40 meters is rare and I'm sure if a ham stumbled upon it, it would be used immediately.  Therefore, if one was not aware of the emergency frequency, one would use it.

Now if after transmitting and the station is told they are causing interference to the net, and they don't move, then there is no excuse and the ham should be reprimanded.

And another thing, QRZ.COM used to post articles on the "Front Page" of this site.  What happened to ARTICLES, STORIES ETC?  Postings such as this one  should be in the forum section not here.

K2WH

 

Until I read this qrticle I was unaware of the Emergency allocations by the FCC on 40 and 80. I will pass the info along. I will also post a notice on my home pages.

 

If you are an ARRL member, just sign up to receive all of these messages via email.  Although you have to put up with some of their stupid "sale pitches", most of the information is ham related.

I get about 1 message every two days, dealing with S.K.'s, weekly informational updates, emergency info, and the like.

Speaking of using the emergency frequencies (+/-), I heard a "long" net yesterday on 7.284 Mhz.  In Pennsylvania, most stations were 5/7 to 5/9+.  They had 3 breaking stations trying to tell them to QSY due to the emergency and the net control station would not recognize them (even though he heard them).  If the FCC is monitoring, I'm sure he will have a letter coming.

73 - Sam
K3SAM

 

K2WH, I think the point NA4IT was trying to make is in response to all the comments that the "extra lites", "no-code techs", and "lo-code" hams are ruining ham radio.

Just making the point that the "old-timers" who passed the 13wpm and higher code are just as much of the problem - and at times more of a problem than are the "extra lites", "no-code techs", and "lo-code" hams.

Ken H>

 

Deliberate interference is one thing, inadverdant interference is another thing. I was NCS for the net on 3873 from 2300-0100 Z on Thursday night. There were a couple of ragchewers down on 387o, who although were 3 kc's away, caused a good deal of *splatter*. One of the stations on the net went down and very nicely asked them to move and they did. Another time, a net started just 1 kc above us. I went up, explained wht was going on, the stations was very nice and moved immediatly. One of the worst problems that we encountered was people *tuning* up on or way too close to the declared frequency. Prior to this, during Isidore, the same problem occured. Also during, Isidore, there was one station who checked in from a club station that should have gotten 30 lashes with his mike cord. Rather than following one of the basic principles of ham radio (listen, listen listen), he jumped in the net, asking who was net control (all the time, NCS was trying to ID), etc. Every time NCS asked a question, it was "QSL QSL", within a span of 2-3 minutes, he used QSL more times than I can count! I'm not an old timer, but I do know proper net procedure and that ain't one of them! If you are going to be involved with formalized HF nets, please learn the proper procedures, ask somebody if you're not sure. Or read "Now You're Talking* or any ARRL books on HF operations.

Carolyn/KM5YL
Section Traffic Manager/LA

 

This problem of disrespecting emergency nets is partly our own fault.

How many "nets" have you heard in ordinary circumstances who are all-too-quick to tell you that you are on their frequency when it comes time for them to start up?

And I don't mean a polite request to make way, or the offer of an invitation to join the upcoming net.

Instead, there's a typical bellicose arrival and a strident, we've been here since 1954 attitude guaranteed to generate some friction against someone who otherwise might have had a positive exchange.

This will harden that person against "cooperating" the next time they come across a frequency that a net would prefer to use.

A side effect, unfortuneately, is that people generalize and end up becoming reluctant to share with nets, even when they have a legitimate emergency claim to a frequency.

The only antidote is the type of enforcement action the FCC recently took against a claimant on 20 meters, which included a reminder that no such claims are recognized among non emergency groups or individuals.

We all have equal status on the bands, folks, regardless of mode or activity, group or individual.

Sometimes I think people treat the bands as some kind of bowling alley, where if you're in the league you get a reserved lane. It's not that way. Wait your turn or invite the other folks to join you.

Paul/VJB

 

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (wb6bcn @ Oct. 04 2002,00:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Until I read this qrticle I was  unaware of the Emergency allocations by the FCC on 40 and 80.  I will pass the info along. I will also post a notice on my home pages.

[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
By the time you post a notice, the emergency declarations will be invalid. They are already and those frequencies are returned to normal use. So don't bother as you will be out of date.

For general information:

There is an old expression, "Ignorance is no excuse."

It is up to amateur radio operators to keep themselves advised of such things, by whatever means they can use. When they are not aware of these declarations, or of rules changes, etc., and they violate them, the old "ignorance is no excuse" applies in the case of citations. These are not declarations by a net; these are declarations by the FCC and they have the support of citations and/or fines behind them.

The problem is amateur radio and the internet are not the same thing. A good many hams do not have access to the internet, and quite a large number don't even own a computer. Yeah, really!! So they are not going to get email notices from anyone. The vast majority of hams are not members of the ARRL so are not going to get notices from the ARRL. For many of these hams, the only way they will find out about temporary situations such as these are when they attempt to use the frequency and are told it has been declared an emergency frequency. It is then up to them to avoid the use, and to learn why the declaration and when it will expire. There is no blanket way to notify all hams or such declarations.

As with local laws in areas you visit, it is incumbent upon you to find out those laws, and not for the local authorities to seek you out and read them off to you, or to post them at the entrance to the state, town or county. This applies to our hobby as well.

There was a time when amateurs would not deliberately operate near a temporary emergency frequency, but there have been some changes, not just in ham radio but in society, since those times, and some folks (fortunately a minority of them) think they have the right to do as they please. One of the big changes, of course, is there are simply more of us, and blocking out 6 KC of a phone band takes away a chunk of frequencies we actually miss, as there isn't enough space for us. (Yeah, I know, we need more hams to use the frequencies.) In addition to that, non-deliberate operation can result, as noted already, because a ham doesn't hear net control, due to propagation, and so starts his QSO on or near the net frequency. He should be advised of the declaration by someone he can hear, and if he fails to move, the FCC can be notified.

Temporary emergency frequency declarations may be different frequencies in different parts of the nation and for different reasons, so the two declared for the Gulf hurricanes may not be the same ones declared for an earthquake in Seattle.

The bottom line is those of us who do not subscribe to the internet, or have access to the means of learning of such declarations, are still obligated to abide by them, and that means, as someone said, "listen, listen, listen." If some net tells you there is an emergency frequency declaration, and you aren't sure if they are lying to you or not, it is best to avoid the frequency anyway; there are other places you can go in our uncrowded, little-used, gonna-lose-'em HF bands. And you can attempt to verify the declaration by other means.

I believe, incidentally, that non-members of the ARRL can confirm such declarations on the ARRL web site, so if some net tells you "this is an emergency frequency," and you are reading this posting, you have access to the internet and can double-check with the ARRL site.

Happy hamming.

73
Ed

 

Some of the Countries I have hammed/lived in have a requirement of so many SWL's confirmed before you can even take the exam for your ham license. The bottom line is; you must listen, listen and listen. This is NOT CB!
And I have nothing to say for those of you that argue when you are told you are interfering with an emergency net. If I was in charge, your license would be history!

 

Yes, it is too bad to listen to folks justify that they are not causing interference, the guy who informed them is not really handling emergency traffic, etc. I guess telling about those upcoming tests at the doctors office is just to important to move that vfo 2 khz. These are not new hams, and operating on these frequencies until the declaration is rescinded is a violation of FCC rules. Sure, some guys don't have the internet, but when asked to move they insist on arguing that there is not really an emergency, etc. Whenever there is a big disaster hams should be checking to see what frequencies are being used for the emergency, and not thinking that it should be all over by now so we can get back to our health problem nets. If hams refuse to yield for emergency communications then what is thier defense when the frequencies are taken away? 73

 

>>If hams refuse to yield for emergency communications then what is their defense when the frequencies are taken away?

I can also assure that the individuals will have no defense when their licenses are taken away or other sanctions are imposed.  Remember, these are FCC issued emergency declarations, not something issued by the ARRL or some individual ham.  I can assure you from personal experience that FCC monitoring stations do actively listen to hear that FCC instructions are carried out, especially concerning emergency communications.

It's bad enough to interferere with an ordinary net, but it's another thing to ignore FCC instructions regarding emergency communications, even if you claim to be unaware of them.

73

Gary, K2GW
SNJ SEC

 

Two thoughts:

1) For a "genuine, FCC declaired" emergency, then all that should be required is a polite "reminder" of the declaration. A failure to respond to a polite reminder should result in a quick note to the FCC. I have lttle doubt that a letter from the FCC will prevent future re-occurrences by all but the most recalcitrant.

2) As for those "self declaired", ongoing nets that are NOT handling an actual, genuine, ongoing "immeadiate threat to life or property", that is entirely different. There are WAY to many nets that think they "own" or have a superior right to a given frequency. WRONG! Here, capitulation will only encourage others to "stake a claim" to a particular frequency. When we signed our license applications, we EXPRESSLY waived any and all claims to a particular frequency.

I REFUSE to acknowlege that absent an FCC declairation or an actual, immeadiate threat to life or property (47 CFR 97.403 or 405), any net has any superior right to any frequency over those currently in QSO. They simply do not. If you are lawfully there first, then you have the frequency (again subject only to FCC declarations and immeadiate threats to life and/or property). This idea that some net has been here since 1954 and therefore has a superior right to a frequency is TOTAL HOGWASH! If you were in QSO before the net TODAY, then you have the frequency. Obviously, courtisy DEMANDS that you permit others to make contact for the purpouses of moving elsewhere and to assist others.

I am sick and tired of net operators with the attitude that they "own" a frequency and that others must move off a frequency to accomidate what I view as "EGO NETTERS".

 

I have been off the air a couple years so haven't heard these recent "emergency nets" in operation. I have seen more and more FCC notice's for clear freguancies. I was licensed in 97 and until the last year or so don't remember the FCC stepping in and issue set frequencies. Why is it ever storm now, when in the past it wasn't deemed necessary? I need to get an antenna up the hear how much actually traffic is passed verses the normal net control spending hours asking for any traffic with nothing of importance comming in. I am all for emergency nets if they are actually needed but this post I can see is consisting of all the self appointed "radio cops." I get a laugh when someone goes through the exercise of showing how to add and subract then condemns people for being on the freguancy he came up with. If the net is at 7.285 with + or - 3kc protection 7.282 and 7.288 are valid as long as the person is running a legal station and using proper power setting. Why does everyone believe the the FCC mandate of 3kc means the net should have no splatter to contend with? According to this post if I live within 50 miles of someone involved in this net I will be operating illegally because I could be 10kc away and still be interferring with this person. Nets have many operators just because one person on the net has interference doesn't mean everyone does. Maybe I am wrong about the 3kc but I would like to see a legitmate post from the fcc or the auxilary that is responsible for issuing the pink slips. If one of the people that has posted is in this capacity please explain what frequancy is usable if not 7.282 or 7.288 what are you basing this on.

 

Just wait untill they get that "SWL" letter from K4ZDH!


John Creel WB3GXW