AMBER ALERTs

I am amazed at the negative comments and the lack of understanding here. Not all of course, but again guys, THE WHOLE IDEA is simply this:

The Amber Alerts are broadcast to make the public aware, via the Broadcast media, of a child abduction and maybe someone will see the descripted perpetrator, vehicle, or child. Not to be police, not to do anything except be aware and to hear the information. Not participating in a "organized" search", or to "help" the police by thinking we have any authority or going out on a "patrol". There is no difference here than hearing the information via another chain of communication and being on the lookout. Remember, part of the Amateur service is just that. Provide a public service when we can.

Different tack here: as to the cost of equipment, yep, the EAS stuff BC stations use isn't cheap. Maybe, with the engineering capabilities within the amateur community, Older EBS equipment could be modified or even built to a groups spec's for a repeater. Just an idea here.

Thanks KB1HLZ for your information. We should all check that out. The Children are priority ONE. Thanks for using ham radio to be a benefit in this manner. I for one will definitely be checking it out.

73' KE0VH

 

Actually, the debate here is very similar to the comments filed with the FCC over the past two years concerning the enhancements to the EAS that made this possible.  You can read them on either the FCC or the NOAA Weather Radio Website.

The concept for the initial expansion of EAS activation to include child alerts originated from some commercial broadcast stations, who thought it served the public interest while simulataneously increasing their ratings and revenues.  ("Child abducted  ... Film at 11").

The major concern expressed by NWS and other commenters was that most "child abductions" are really custody disputes, not a sociopath stranger kidnappings, that require "warning" the general populance.  NWS felt that diluting the NWR and NAS system with numerous missing person reports would result in people tuning out and not pay attention to things like tornado warnings that might affect them personally.  Supposedly, the new guidelines now indicate that EAS activation for child abductions are to be limited to those in which the life of the child is believed to be immediately threatened.  We'll see.

In any event, I'd respectively suggest that folks planning to integrate amateur radio into this go back and read the EAS source documents.  You'll also have to determine if you want to alert hams about cases that don't involve EAS activations as well.

Once again, it sounds good at first glance but is a lot more complicated than it seems.  One very simple solution is for hams who want to be alerted for such events (and others) just go down to Radio Shack and spend $40.00 for a NWR with SAME encoding. I have one myself.   It's actually the cheapest solution, and not a bad idea for SKYWARN and other activations anyway.  I doubt most hams don't leave their two meter radios turned on 24 hours a day anyway.

Your mileage may vary.

Gary Wilson, K2GW

 

Good idea, we all want to protect our children . In this area we have many repeaters but very few mobile hams on , its mostley dead air except for the few to work and come home guys.I bet right now if I turned on my old beat up rat shack 2m ht I couldnt raise anyone and if I did they would be fixed.

 

I Agree with GKZ.... Bullets do have a use.. Insert in the Criminal Cranium Rapidly......

But since the legal system does not work* it is up to all of us to protect our children and the children of others..


* The legal system is broken... Here in Indianapolis, IN last week a judge released hardened criminals to the streets free and clear. Due to over crowding.. Well if we would just do away with the plea bargains and just give maximum penalty there would be less crime.. Or do like they do in other countries... And if someone steals cut off their hands... Etc...



73 Jerry

 

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (W5HTW @ July 30 2002,13:57)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I don't think anyone can complain about a system that would help us find and possibly recover missing children. It may be one of the most noble things we could do. This is basically a very good concept. Before implementing any such "official" plan, we should be aware of the implications.

I see some possibilities for abuse of such a system, though. First I can envision a bunch of HT-carrying hams running around getting in the way of authorities and reporting knee-jerk impressions. Hopefully that wouldn't happen, but then we, as hams, are just people, and as such, we are very diverse in our thoughts and our actions.

Secondly, linking us directly with a government or commercial broadcast site, by putting a link into a repeater, (for example) tends to lend a sense of "authority" to our operation that belies our status as "amateurs." Which we are. Mobilizing ourselves in any other mode than that of "citizen John Q" without notice to local authorities may jepordize our standing in the community. See below.

Having said that, the concept is pretty good. It just needs ironing out to avoid any touch of illegality or any idea that it makes us "instant cops."

It may could be that, instead of rebroadcasting any Amber Alert message on a repeater, the alert could consist of simply a tone transmitted over the repeater, only briefly (ten seconds or so, perhaps transmitted three times over a five minute interval.) Anything that alerts hams to the fact a child is missing, but does not risk rebroadcasting commercial or police information via amateur radio.

Following that alert, amateurs who have participated in some form of Amber Alert training would go into action, keeping in mind, just as in SAR operations, they ARE amateurs, and coordinating fully with formal searches. I think it would be important to have training, perhaps provided by local police, just as in Neighborhood Watch programs. With such training, my first item above of doubt would be removed, as these hams would no longer be "just out there," but would be working with the approval of, and assistance to/from, local authorities. This training would be not only to protect ourselves from liability, as certainly there are hams who would be ready and willing to overstep their bounds, but to protect the police tactics, and, most importantly, protect the child. Having amateurs doing professional work can be a real hazard to all concerned, hence the need for some sort of formal training.

(Unfortunately, I see, too, another cry from some for hams to be able to directly contact police on the police frequencies. That has been mentioned on other forums a few times by those not knowledgeable about either ham radio or the police operations. I hope it doesn't come up here, as it invalidates the entire notion. And I hope I'm not putting words into someone's thoughts! )

We also tend to believe we hams are of a class of people who are honorable. But we are people. That is another reason some form of training would be necessary, and probably, some background checks. There is little assurance that a man with a ham license would not find a lost child, play savior, get her into his car, and turn a simple lost child case into a rape/murder case. Any formal organization participating in this as hams definitely needs to be taken through police records checks at the bare minimum.

There is nothing in the law to prevent us from keeping our eyes open. What matters is that we don't go speeding around in cars, chasing suspects, causing kidnappers to possibly harm their victim, and getting in the way of police - or even transmitting information that may be picked up by a scanner. While that same scanner can also pick up police calls, if you or I give away, via radio, information that may lead to the death of the kidnapped child, there would be an immense liability.

The idea of the Amber Alert is to get action quickly, by the public, and we, as hams, are part of the public. We sometimes forget that, and think we are more than just another John Q and Susie P, just because we have a radio. Give us an HT and an emergency, and we become Walter Mitty. (OK, you have to be an old timer in life to know about Mitty)

As an aside, almost 100 percent of the Amber Alerts broadcast in our area since the program started back in the spring, have been mistakes. One was a faked kidnapping to cover an intended bank robbery, (no child at all was involved) and another was a child who simply went for a hike and was in no danger at all - he just forgot to come home on time. Others have been similar. This marshalls a lot of forces for a lot of money, for mistakes or hoaxes. Yet there is no way around that; it has to be done.

All in all, a very good idea. Summarizing, a simple alert tone on area repeaters (no rebroadcasting of the data) allows us to call authorities, or perhaps check into a website, identify our group, obtain the details, announce we are going into operation, and to do so with the assurance we won't make matters worse. And with the cooperation of local authorities. Once the information on the child has been obtained by one ham, that ham can then put it onto the repeater, avoiding any rebroadcast. There may be other ways to get the information into our hands quickly. Delays in obtaining the information can be cut to a minimum, with the right procedures.

Put it to work.

Ed[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
To clarify this matter, any hams that feel strongly in favor of getting involved in search and rescue and other crises and disasters should contact their local county or city emergency management director and join up. Then you are in a pool of volunteers in an organization that the police trust and cooperate directly with, because you have passed a security background check to get accepted, and must take certain specified training and other advanced training as instructed by the directors. They need all the people they can get on the rosters. They need you!

I am a ham, but I feel that it is not enough just to have a license and a radio in many cases. Many hams just don't take it any further than studying for the license and it is just a hobby to them. This is just fine, and it is great when hams decide to keep their eyes and ears open in an emergency, if they can limit themselves to only reporting the facts, and not their opinions. And don't get out there in the middle of things, trying to be the superhero. Calm, concise, and factual reports from hams are always appreciated. Wild, excited, barely understandable raving into a mic will always be viewed with trepidation until further evidence becomes available to substantiate it. Try to view your actions and manner as others will perceive you, and you will make a report that will get results.

An example: a funnel shaped cloud is hanging down from the base of a storm cloud, halfway to the ground. A trained storm spotter knows that this likely means the tornado is on the ground, but does not report it as such unless he sees ground debris flying. He only reports a funnel shaped cloud halfway to the ground unless and until he witnesses a fact that it actually is on the ground. He heeps his opinions to himself until he is sure. The untrained tend to cry "wolf" too often when the situation does not warrant it.

Ham radio opens the door to a new world for many, but the paths lead to other doors too. Come on in.

 

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (WB9TCO @ July 31 2002,10:48)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I can just see it now……

Local 2 meter repeater:   “BREAKER! BREAKER! BREAKER!…..I just saw the red SUV with a kid in it fitting the description south bound on highway 51. Put out the tire strips.  Block the road. I’ll stay right on them.”

Did someone mention something about stalker laws?  

Go ahead and laugh. You don’t think this has happened before?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Exactly. It HAS happened before, and with hams as well as REACT. A ham radio license is exactly that, and nothing more.

Further reflection makes me agree with those who are mostly against this. My point is, as I have also stated several times regarding our "public service" and emergency communications, we need to recognize when we ARE needed, and even more importantly, recognize when we are no longer needed. Then get the heck out of the way. I have too often seen hams, even before the days of the belt full of HTs, try to push their way into accident, disaster or other scenes, because they felt the ham license granted them some special police-like (or fireman-like) rights. It's a very bad image, and can be harmful to others in the situation. I have seen hams told to leave the scene for they were too aggressive in trying to be helpful, and were in the way. In my own experience, I have usually chosen to watch quietly, unless I see a very specific need for something I am equipped to do, and no-one else appears to be.

Someone said maybe a rule change that would allow the rebroadcast of the commercial broadcast alert message. Rules changes that take us in the direction of Public Safety radio will take us in the wrong direction for our hobby. Said again - we are hams. And rebroadcasting police information from the scanner is absolutely illegal under the Communications Act of 1934 As Amended. The tone alert will have to work - if it isn't enough, then we need to realize there are probably 500 civilians with cell phones out there for each one of us.

Please note. Not all missing children are abducted, not by anyone. Some run away, some forget to come home, some get lost. Younger ones just don't know how to tell "it's time to go home." They are busy playing with the puppy or swinging on the swing. Then it's dark, and they stand there, "Where's home?" Some postings here are already talking about "shoot the bastard" or "string him up." String WHO up? I can see us primed to blow out the tires of some good Samaritan who happened to pick up a lost kid and was taking him to the police department. Or worse yet, hanging him from the nearest cottonwood.

The liability for participation in something like this is absolutely frightening to me, at least without suitable training and background checks, and with the approval of local authorities. I'd really suggest people who wish to participate in this join the Sheriff's Posse or local police reserve unit. If you can qualify, they can use you. If you can't qualify, you shouldn't be trying to do it with ham radio. Join the Posse. Then you get to be official, and carry a police radio, and ham radio has nothing at all to do with it. Or you can participate in SAR. But a general alert on a city repeater will bring out the good, the bad and the very, very ugly.

The bottom line is I think it's great for us to think about lost kids, and if we happen across information that will help find them, using the ham radio to relay that information is suitable. I really think, though, if I was the one who found a lost child, I'd prefer to communicate by cell phone or pay phone. If I had the suspect vehicle in sight, regarding an abduction (or suspected abduction) I can imagine I'd try to patch through to 911 or the local authorities, but I really don't think I'd care to call in other hams.

We tend to overvalue our position in holding that ham license. We do need to remember we are just amateur radio operators. That's all.

73 to all
Ed

 

I agree that ham radio ops are just ordinary people with a license, although after re-reading the original post where does he say that ham ops should do the job of the police? All he is saying is why not offer as much information regarding this lost child to as many people as possible in the shortest possible timefame, what's the big deal? If your child was lost would you accept any less?

73

 

I am an ex cop and currently in the private security field. I believe that this would be an absolute GREAT idea! the police can't be everywhere and too often they are a step or two behind the perp. and this is way too often fatal. Maybe a plan like this would work, it is certainly worth coordinating together and running past local hams groups and attempting the cooperation of local authorities.. as hams we would be merely out and in a SAR operation and would ONLY observe and report... Ham groups could activate the ares/races net so hams in the field would have a direct dispatch (control operator) to contact authorities with information... REMEMBER ... the ONLY job a ham would be doing is searching for, when found would stay out of harms way and report... continue observing and report...

Great Idea!!!!! '73 I would like to see it activated in our area

 

yes, hams when they can, should help in the public service. i would like to think that there are few hams, that, if called upon to help, would refuse to do so....this response is to a specific post which deals with a system of alerts when a child is abducted......as one respondent already pointed out, the vast majority of these abductions are in fact custody issues and not abductions by complete strangers.  sorry to say that in recent weeks, several, apparently, have been from total nut cases, some with previous records, who should have been exterminated for the vermin they are, years ago.  mention is made of the mobile character of hams, can't really dispute this.  a couple questions are:

who has 2-way radio gear in their vehicle or home, but not broadcast radio (tv) gear that would also allow reception of this information.....if there is a public broadcast of this information, would not the public, in general, use a cell phone, regular phone, have some one call the police etc, if they saw an abducted child/suspect.

why would this be limited to abducted children, what about rape, murder, bank robbery (pick your own serious crime).  and, if more crimes were included, would this not lead to so many emergency broadcasts that the serious nature of them would be lost over time.
dan,k3xr

 

I think this is a great idea. I sent this email to the arrl on July 21, 2002.

"Mr. Haynie,

I think amateur radio and its vast system of repeaters could help with the proposed AMBER initiate being implemented nation wide. This link will take you the a letter to the FCC that explains the program: America's Missing: Broadcast Emergency Response www.missingkids.com/html/news_amberlaunch2.html

Sincerely,

Hank Kenealy - K1DOS"

 

As a father, I think the idea is worth considering, with the following realizations:

There are far too few listeners in most areas--how often do we hear rumblings of "2 meters is dead in my area"?

With as many beeps, burbles, announcements, and other things on machines nowdays, I'm afraid these types of things would become just noise after the first month or so.  Figure on the machines that would be used for this, there is a club net announcement, a time announcement, an extend ID announcement, a NWS warning announcement, and now a child abduction announcement...that's a lot of stuff to have to digest.

And as far as the "ham operators using common sense"...well, we are a cross section of the general population...and as somebody (P.T. Barnum??) once said: "There's a sucker born every minute."  I'd say 10% of the population is certifiablly "off the deep end".  

I once heard of a ham radio operator showing up at a domestic disturbance in full emergency gear and amber strobe on the car....he picked it up off of the public service scanner!!

If we limit ourselves to being disciplined eyes and ears, we can't go wrong....but some us go off the deep end.

 

Well I think it is a good idea.

Hopefully it will work in the incident that is developing in Lancaster California where two teenage girls have been kidnapped this morning. The Amber Alert system is gaining a lot of popularity right now thanks to CNN and they are doing a big talk about it. Amateur radioists should look into this the same way as weather alerts. When the FCC (and in my case, Industry Canada) understand that the alerts being broadcast on Amateur Frequencies will do more good than harm from the replaying of broadcast radio alerts it will work better.

Perhaps scaled-down versions of the decoders will be made available for the amber alerts that will reduce the broadcast radio information replayed.

The system seems workable and I think it should be moved into amateur radio as well.

VA7KBH

 

Ok the Amber alert system is fantastic. (Father of three)
Getting Hams involved is another fantastic idea. (Father of three)
We have such groups as ARES, RACES and others.
Why not have local clubs formed through local groups, attach to the RACES or ARES group and then set up a tone (No official police radio intercepts or rebroadcast of news) Just have the link at a designated site that several people monitor. They then can put the alert out by pager or what not. I know our RACES group here has text pagers. That way, Say, "Amber Alert, Child in Reno county (Two counties west)has been reported missing. Description is....Keep an eye out" or "Amber Alert, A child has been reported missing the Wichita Amatuers for Children is being alerted. All volunteers cooridinate on WAFC repeater.".

That way the amatuers have a place to report possible sightings to one person to report to the authorities. Heck we can even transmit pictures now to each other and we could saying. "Is this the child?" Or here is a picture of the missing child.

Anyway my quarter,

73's
KC0LHJ

 

check out the MTS FM EAR II at
http://www.EmergencyAlertRadio.com

should be just the ticket for interfacing EAS
to repeaters. Has event specific programming...responds
to the end of message signal....and already has the new
event codes.

regards

wa4geh

 

The Amber Alert just worked in southern California.

The two girls who were abducted at 10 this morning have been found, safe, in Bakersfield. The kidnapper didn't get away. He's dead, and just saved the taxpayers a whole lot of money. Although I still don't know if the cops used only one bullet, or two.

WB2WIK/6