Amateur Radio Marginalized by FCC on BPL Issue

Michael Powell is absolutely daft.  And, so are the staff who have relegated anything but federal,aircraft, and radio telescope frequencies to 'non-essential' licensed services.  There's even a threat of administrative action for (in the FCC's opinion) what are deemed 'frivolous interference complaints.'

73,

Lee
W6EM
Bradenton, FL[/QUOTE]
Glad they slipped that one in. Imply that you may get cited if you complain about interference.

These are the "Nice Folks" that Chip says we should cooperate with.

Right, real nice. Now you will need to retain an attorney to protect yourself when you file a complaint.

Actualy, it is time for lawyers now. That document has more holes then swiss cheese.

Absolute double talk, and full of legal problems.

Yep, America should be proud to implement bogus tecnology, that has been proven harmful by so many other countries.

Just makes you proud. At least they will be able to work HF in Iraq, while we look at our S-Meters at 60 over.

But, don't expect Kerry to fix this. Just like the rest, he likes that money a lot more then your "Hobby".

W6NJ

 

All right Craig,

Now that wakes me up.

A few thousand pissed off people and a few lawyers can make a difference.

W6NJ

 

For those of you that think this isn't political, you need to re-think the issue. This is big business running the government, and the government employing nepotism in it's appointments. Do you think we can't change that? If you do, then just give it up now. Or think about this. Election day is the only hope at all for a solution. With a new administration there may be a chance, with the current one there is obviously no chance at all.

 

I doubt that a change of administration will have any effect on the BPL issue- it's not likely to warrant a President's personal attention unless BPL begins to interfere with the average Joe's home entertainment system on a wholesale basis, or unless it interferes with the comms from Air Force One.

But let's say that it does catch the next President's eye:  let's see, one candidate will put in on the back burner for four years while he deals with other matters more dear to his heart, the other will sit on the fence for four years while he decides which side of the BPL issue is politically safe . . . someone tell me, is there any candidate out there who is likely to do something for us?  Didn't think so.

73 . . . Ron WB5HZE

 

The next step, albeit a waste of time, is what the League and perhaps others like the Association of Public Safety Communications Officials will likely take: A Petition for Reconsideration.  The FCC has a history with these.  They accept them and wait 6 months or longer to do anything with them.  Which usually amounts to a couple of paragraphs to deny what's asked.

But, I would guess that the League must believe that going directly to the Court of Appeal could likely be challenged for not having exhausted all agency appeal processes first.

Looking at the calendar, folks, we're talking at least a year before the courts will ever get this.

Does anyone know if there's such thing as an "Emergency Petition for Reconsideration"? If there is, the League, and especially APSCO should file same as time is of the essence, especially for the potential harm to law enforcement, fire, and paramedic services using the 30-50MHz fixed and mobile band.  One such agency, the Missouri Highway Patrol emphatically commented on its concerns, and, of course was all but ignored.  Also, the California Highway Patrol operates exclusivelly in that band and would be similarly impeded by BPL interference.  Although, it looks like only perhaps municipalities will roll out BPL in CA.

To try and take on the Commission as individuals, you are talking big bucks, since I don't believe that the ARRL has enough resources to defend hundreds of us from administrative penalties from the FCC for filing complaints.  We need to be patient, and compile accurate logs of interference, and just as importantly, dates, times and context of discussions with offending BPL operators, and their response to each complaint.  That way, collectively, a history could be documented for perhaps some type of class action litigation or some such.

Remember, we aren't the only ones who got screwed.  And, we're in pretty good company with the likes of APSCO, NAB, and several more.

Now IS the time to let the ARRL pursue this along with others who have the influence and the pockets to support a cadre of attorneys to take the FCC on.

Good luck to all.  Its not our fault.  Its not the ARRL's fault, either.  Quite simply one of the biggest purchases of a government agency in our lifetimes.

73,

Lee
W6EM
Bradenton, FL

 

Im not sure if this waas already said but I wonder if amatuers have primary or secondary privilages with BPL?  Its probably primary but i just wanna make sure. and also if this is true:

 

Hi Lee,

Good post.  There isn't much need to get excited just yet.  This is going to be a drawn out process.  The organizations need to fight the FCC.  Individuals won't have a chance.

As individuals, we need to go after the BPL offenders.  I really don't think the FCC will do a thing.  That FCC document has so many contradictions it isn't funny.

I really like the part, where I should move my antennas to the front yard to get away from the power lines.  Cracks me up.

Obviously the FCC talks Part 15 Rules for BPL, but doesn't intend on actualy applying them to BPL.

The key now, is to start documenting band noise.  If possible record the sound.  BPL does have it own unpleasing noise.  

It's not frivilous, if you can prove what you heard before, and what you have now after BPL is deployed.  I would let the FCC know up front that all has been documented, and the methods used to make sure that BPL is at fault.

Beyond that, it should be quite simple to isolate the origin of the interference with a wideband portable connected to a directional loop antenna.

I'm sure that down the road, the ARRL will publish many methods to get the evidence.  And, I am sure that we can work on some software to demodulate the signals, and actualy start reading data, to eliminate any doubt as to the origin of the interfering signal.

You can be sure the hackers will be working on this right away.

But HF still works, and I got a JA on 10 meters 10 over 9 on the back of my beam, so I think I'll work some DX, while I still can.

73,   W6NJ

 

Good thoughts.  Hopefully fact and the law will prevail.

What you said about demodulating the BPL signals by hackers reminded me of what Dubyah Shrub said in Farmington, NM about doctors being able to send (and receive) patient medical information remotely.  The last time I checked, such stuff is quite sensitive and priveleged.  And demonstrated how little Shrub knew and knows about the technology.

I can see it now:  Hackers with portable gear to intercept BPL-radiated signals and decipher credit card information, medical records, and goodness knows what else.  Kind of like the characters that drive around in search of a wireless phone cradle to connect to.  Only, much simpler.  And, then there are the really stupid utilities that claim to want to use BPL for control of their distribution lines.  Now, that would be really laughable to watch a hacker shut down half a city using BPL for SCADA communications.

It's somewhat laughable.  No, more like pathetically laughable.

Propagation was excellent today here on 10M as well.  Heard serveral 10FM repeaters and a German using one calling CQ.  However, my QRP Motorola MT1000 handheld couldn't quite key them up.

73,

Lee
W6EM
Bradenton, FL.

 

I don't think that's going to help our case at all. Who's going to get the blame and be responsible for reducing power, making modifications, adjustments, relocation of antenna etc.? Not BPL, the interfering amateur. It's obvious we rate very low on their list of priorities and they don't care if they interfere with us. All the more reason to think they really WILL care if amateurs interfere with their precious BPL. I'm not a kneejerk panicky type, but I can see them really coming down on Amateur Radio, or at least the specific Amateur stations which cause significant problems with BPL. All in all, it sounds like the courts are going to be busy.

Regarding Bush vs Kerry and BPL, I hate to sound paranoid, but it's been mentioned before that one use of BPL is that anything plugged into an AC outlet can be accessed and information gathered via BPL. In these days of the Patriot Act, isn't it possible that this may be the number one reason the government is forcing BPL through, and the "broadband internet in every pot" is a smokescreen? It's been proven that their claims about BPL just aren't true...If this has anything at all to do with the gov. pushing BPL down our throats, then it stands to reason that maybe BPL would NOT have happened no matter who's in office, as most of these so-called national security measures have come about by Bush's people. Don't misunderstand, I'm not crazy about Kerry either, and I was for Bush in the beginning, but his goverment is getting scary, and it's hard to dispute that his administration has done more to bring about Orwell's 1984 than any other administration. It could be argued that any President might be doing the same things, since the 9/11 attacks, but that's debatable.

 

It's funny how just days before the election, people want to blame Dubya for everything from their toothache, to BPL. Wake up and smell the coffee people! It's not the president's fault that this is happening... It's the ARRL. If the League was doing the job they are supposed to be doing, representing the ham community in a positive light to the public and elected officials, we wouldn't be taliking about BPL now. Face it, the ARRL dropped the ball big time here. The ARRL is too busy thinking of ways to dum down the system to make it 'easier' for people to get into ham radio. No wonder the FCC sees us as little more than knitters or underwater basket weavers... Just Hobbiests, I think they called us, serving no real purpose. As far as the elections are concerned, Tuesday both myself and my ham wife are going to the poles to vote. GO DUBYA!

 

That's right Dave, it's the ARRL's fault....I'm sure it's their fault too that there will no Social Security left for you when you retire, heck I'll bet the whole war in Iraq is their fault too, right?

Vote for whoever you want to, that's our right. By the way, I don't see ARRL listed in your club affiliations in your signature...how much did YOU do to fight BPL? I'm thinking the ARRL probably did a bit more.

I'm amazed...I don't agree with everything the ARRL does either, but it's still the most powerful organization we've got, who else is doing a better job? Besides, there are some things the government is just not going to do or give up, no matter who fights for it or who's president. Remember years ago when President Carter saw a UFO and they wouldn't even open the records for him. Years later another President said he was going to disclose to the public all the information on UFO's. He couldn't get near the records either. Whether you believe in UFO's or not isn't the point, the point is, there are agencies operating in the government that no one has control over, not the ARRL or even the President. They will do what they want, for "national security".

I'm not saying to vote for Bush, Kerry, or Nader. Just that we can control some things, some we can't. But I will say I don't like the way things have been going the last few years, not at all.

 

I can see it now:  Hackers with portable gear to intercept BPL-radiated signals and decipher credit card information, medical records, and goodness knows what else.  Kind of like the characters that drive around in search of a wireless phone cradle to connect to.  Only, much simpler.  And, then there are the really stupid utilities that claim to want to use BPL for control of their distribution lines.  Now, that would be really laughable to watch a hacker shut down half a city using BPL for SCADA communications.

It's somewhat laughable.  No, more like pathetically laughable.

73,

Lee
W6EM
Bradenton, FL.[/QUOTE]
Outside of the interference problem, is the security issue.

I use 801 wireless at home.  I do networking for a living, so I know to use encyption, and mac address security, and a few other tricks. But most people don't.  It isn't that easy for the average person to setup.

Lucky for those folks, the current wireless in the home doesn't reach much beyond the boundary of your property.  So your risk is at least somewhat low.

BPL signals will transmit the data of users in a very large area.  And worst, even using encrytion between my laptop and wireless router would be defeated from my router through the BPL.  

That's right, credit card numbers, login and password to your bank account, and every other thing personal to you, is intercepted by anyone in a car with the right gear, within a mile of your home.

This isn't just about hams, it is about everyone that uses a computer on the internet.

I don't go into this subject much here, because it is covered elsewhere in computer forums, where the people in the know, also agree that BPL is a horrible technology.

Ham radio's fight against BPL is yet another "Public Service" that the public doesn't even understand.

Yes, the FCC's dream is simple.  Internet access on every AC outlet, and your personal information on every hackers computer that drives close to your home.

Being a ham, and a network professional gives me twice the headache as to the total lack of responsible government representation.

I get so upset by this stupidity, that I sometimes just want to ignore it. But all of the comments from my fellow hams keep my hopes up, and get me motivated for the fight.  You too Chip.

Off subject, Osama can kiss my rosy red as.... Bush or Kerry, you are going down OBL.  Count on it.

A day of joy that will be, indeed.

So count the camels, and find a new cave, but we are coming for you.  

Today, tomorrow, and everyday after, we are coming for you.  When my boy hits military age, he's coming for you.  Talk your BS about how we are guilty, but the giant is awake, and coming for you.

You can try to play with our elections, but this isn't Spain. No matter who wins, we are coming for you. No matter what, the USA will never rest until you go down.

You will pay the price for the 3000+ brothers and sisters that you killed, you bastard.

73,  W6NJ    

 

I'll bet it's safe to say that's one thing we can all agree on.