n8rat, On 6 meters during SSSP OPENINGS or on single antenna EME on 6 meters 1.3 db makes a big difference. It's about ERP and link budget for me as I only have a single 8 el on 6 meters and no possibility to put up a multi-array stack so an extra 1.3 db on ssp or on EME would be an improvement for me. Also on 40 meters when the noise on the other end is high an extra 1.3db does make a difference I don't have 100 foot towers, mine are only 35-45 feet high so for what I want to do the extra 1.3 db does make a difference. If I get 2kw to use on 6 i"m sure going to use it on HF. N8RAT, may I ask you what type of car do you drive, where I live I can't survive driving a Prius or other wimpy low range vehicle so I have something large that holds a lot of fuel that's my choice. And like cars I also want power in my radios and both are my choice and since people shouldn't lecture me on what to drive I don't want the FCC limiting me on my RF output power especially when other countries are allowed more.
Bob KC3VO, "The Human Linear", is packin' >26 dB over a FT-817 here! (for emergencies only of course ) https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=169836159713771 Hope to QSO him some day. 73 de John - WØPV
The argument against this amplifier that it would end up in the hands of CBers is akin to the argument not allowing guns because they end up in the hands of criminals. The FCC should strike the 15 dB rule and enforce the law on both the ham and CB bands.
It takes no more skill to transmit 5W than to transmit 500W. But it takes a lot more skill to RECEIVE 5W! So why do QRPers often cast themselves as somehow more noble and righteous because they send a below-average signal?
Because the rule is transmit enough power to make the contact. Often times than not the power can be turned down, you don't need to be s9+20 to make a contact. Obviously there are times when power is needed/warranted. But its less often than we think. I run 5W when mountain topping and doing portable activities, and it isn't a huge obstacle, especially once spotted. At home I usually run 100W, but for nets I will turn the SB-200 on as I want to be heard by more stations. But I would be completely happy if the world of ham radio was limited to 100W. Thats why the 30m and 60m bands are appealing to many, it's an escape from bands dominated by big guns.
How about we get the FCC to actually do something about all the crap chinese products and GROW lamps emitting ungodly hash and racket unabated???????
Rather than cram our bands with 1.5k and 2k linear's, why not write to your representative to ask them to clean up our ham bands from all that man made noise that we endure every day. Some of us live in area's where s9 noise is the norm. However the poster has a valid point, but for those who can't work dx on 100w, you need to invest in decent antenna's. You can achieve all the gain you want in your antenna that any linear amp will supply you. Now super antenna and 2k, that is called having your cake and eating it too. *quote* "I have seen it all now when I read that I only want 2k because Cuba has it," did I read that right? I only want that new SUV because my neighbour got one, I only want that pool because my neighbour just got one, no offence intended but that is such a ridiculous argument. Wouldn't it be better to throw all our resources into cleaning up all that man made noise, rather than making it. I may never achieve all band dxcc on my 100w or legal 400w here in the UK "but I will enjoy trying"in this current solar cycle and with the decline in the cycle in general, it is made all that much harder, but the noise floor rising will bring an end to the hobby we all enjoy in its current form. No matter how much power we eventually sqeeze out of our radio's.
What I can't understand is the people who want to regulate other people just because it doesn't apply to them. I stand no way to benefit from this rule change. But it's a totally unnecessary rule (now). If it's true that no one really needs a 35dB amp, why is it any of my business to prevent them from having one anyway? I firmly don't beleive anyone needs semiconductors to work the world. I sure don't. So let's ban transistorised radios. The same could be said the other way for people who don't like tube rigs. I just don't get it. The vast majority of people these days just want their personal preferences to be everyone else's restrictions. I just don't get it.
The proposal to build a case for change details some of the history of the rules. My opinion follows this well written proposal. We should all take this proposal seriously. The characters involved with the Expert amps are some of the brightest and talented I've met in ham radio circles. My use of the product was a genuine pleasure. So when I see coming from their camp a filed notice to get regulatory hurdles out of the way, I am hopeful for what's coming in ham radio. I am saying the bar can be raised. Operators and manufacturers, step it up. Let me quote a bit: As currently modified, it [the example Expert amp] is handicapped in its appeal to a large portion of the domestic market because many users own low-power transmitters that cannot drive the amplifier to full legal power. No one outside the United States would want the needlessly impaired version [customized for US market] of an amplifier when the fully functioning model is available. and There is no technical or regulatory reason an amplifier capable of being driven to full legal output by even a fraction of a watt should not be available to amateur radio operators in the United States. I am saying we absolutely need to update the regulations to match the capability, quality, variety, and skill we have available to us and which are already available in other communication markets. The regulations must be altered and up to date so amateur innovators and manufacturers can claim no excuse in Part 97 a la "it's not worth it". With this rule out of the way, our incentive and reward will be to conquer technical hurdles on our own turf, and we will bring in tech that is already available to do it (see W8MQW's post - he nails it). In the end, we will have forced ourselves to grow. Please consider the need to advance the service and our enjoyment of it. I'm QRT for a few years now, but I am taking the time to comment on this and will endorse my opinion with the FCC. I have seen so many things come up tonight through this post I forgot I cared about.
I sincerely hope this all a well played joke on those, like me, who tend to take things a bit too literally / seriously at times... Seems the ONLY argument in favor of keeping the ridiculous gain restriction of discrete amplification stages is because of the irrational & emotional fear of potential increased abuse by a tiny fractional minority of CB'ers who'd pay $3K plus for an amateur radio amp... This is not logical, nor rational, in any way shape or form; it is pandering to irrational fear mongering for a non-existent threat and only hurts the technological advancement of Amateur Radio for EVERYONE. It's not difficult, nor expensive at all to go QRO w/ CB as things currently sit. $150 will get you 300+ watts, which will drive any amateur radio linear PA to it's rated output & beyond into hard clipping, err I mean "compression" in proper ham radio speak......... Seems the doomsday scenario where hoards of CB'ers on 11m running 1.5KW of power & thus somehow splattering all though the Amateur bands has not happened, and it will continue not to happen, else it would have already happened... I've seen more than a few easy & relatively low cost DIY 3KW CB amp designs available for purchase, yet none for amateur radio... Why hasn't the 11m doomsday scenario played out yet!?!?? The invalid argument that it would be easy to remove the output bandpass filters to operate on 11m if the gain restriction was removed, makes ZERO SENSE! The internal negative feedback gain structure of a solid state amp has nothing to do with the output bandpass filters; one can just as easily remove these filters on a 15dB gain restricted PA and drive it w/ a $100 150 watt PA from Ebay for the same overall result, albeit w/ MORE distortion than what would occur w/ a single high gain PA. If someone is seriously contemplating the purchase of an overpriced $2500 - $3500+ legal limit amateur radio amp in the US for use on 11m, do you really think they are going to throw their hands in the air in cold defeat for having to spend another $100 to get it all working? Also, if someone spends this much money on an amp, I would reason that it would be MORE likely that they would NOT modify it to remove the output bandpass filtering for 11m, because they are likely a licensed amateur radio operator, who of course will have deep emotional disdain for CB'ers... Sure, there'll be a few CB'ers who will pay the big bucks for a "big boy" PA that even the overwhelming majority of licensed amateur radio operators choose not to afford, but to beg government to maintain un-effective regulations that hurdle technological progress & stifle product competition for EVERYONE in the hobby because of this irrational fear makes ZERO SENSE other than appeasing irrational emotion & feelings. The current regulations do not fix your fears of an 11m doomsday scenario as they are easily bypassed & yet nothing has happened; therefore, the ONLY true reason one can have to justify the regulation's existence is to satisfy irrational emotions & feelings which should NEVER be the basis of law in a "free" society. Also, your entitled opinion of what is "necessary" is fine & dandy and is your god given right to have & speak freely about, I even agree w/ a lot of your points of "necessary" within the context of operating in a neighborhood; however, entitled opinion quickly becomes entitled arrogance when you beg government to force your happy notions of "necessary" upon others who may not have the obvious restrictions & required mutual respect one should have researched & recognized before ever thinking of running legal limit in a neighborhood.... Just because you acted a bit irresponsibly & disrespectfully to your neighbors by running legal limit in a neighborhood, where the results were highly predictable and have been known for decades, does not mean that your own personal notions / circumstances of "necessary", & ESPECIALLY financially "necessary", are justification to force & shoehorn others who may have different circumstances, knowledge, experiences, innovations, etc where it is perfectly OK, more than reasonable, or even necessary to run more. For folks going QRO in neighborhoods, I would reason that actually adhering to, & being conservative by not derating for duty cycle, uncontrolled MPE limits should do fairly well in helping to limit potential negative impact to neighbors. I would find it hard to believe that running legal limit on an antenna w/ tangible gain in the middle of a typical US subdivision type of neighborhood didn't either exceed, or was uncomfortably close to uncontrolled MPE limits on the upper HF bands. My 100 watts w/ a vertical ground mount vertical barely meets the uncontrolled MPE limits on 10 meters. Plenty of folks run legal limit responsibly w/ a nice clean signal that barely registers on the S-meter only 3KC's down or up on my average performing receiver w/ NB on; they're just as clean when viewed on an SDR as well. I've had several QSO's where the other station was originally transmitting ~500 watts PEP & boosted it to legal limit for a 'workable' 5 minute QSO that would have otherwise been too annoying on my end due to band noise. I've also had plenty of QSO's where the barefoot stations were S9+ & completely distorted from ALC "Compression", while the 1KW stations on beams were just above the noise floor, but clean & clear because they weren't distorted, err I mean not using "compression" in proper ham speak... If 6dB gain didn't matter in certain situations, I doubt as many folks would spend the time & expense for a beam w/ only 4-6db of gain on the lower bands... Your argument is that 6dB doesn't tangibly matter from an amp, yet propose better antennas as the "solution" where a REAL tangible 6 dBi gain in directional output on the lower HF bands would be a pretty respectable result! A crappy overdriven 375 watt signal through a +6dBi antenna will be equally loud & crappy as a crappy overdriven 1.5KW signal through a 0 dbi antenna... A 100 watt overdriven transceiver thru a 6dBi antenna will only be 5.8 dB down from a 1.5KW signal thru a 0dBi antenna... Do you not understand gain & ERP or how it all works? If 6dB didn't really gain any tangible result, then why piss & moan about folks running high power? Depending on situation, it may be more feasible for a variety of reasons & circumstances to run a lower gain antenna at legal limit or even more for similar ERIP compared to a more efficient antenna at a fraction of the power. Either way, it is not your job, not my job, nor should it be anyone else's job or business to determine forced regulations to shoehorn others into fitting into another's opinion of "necessary", so long as one's activities does not put other people's lives at risk; begging government to maintain restrictions for others to appease & impose your own entitled opinions of "necessary" upon others (ESPECIALLY financially "necessary") is actually called entitled arrogance, which amateur radio as an entire community needs a whole lot less of.............................. The distorted / out of context justification that people have worked stations around the world on 100 Watts & less fails to enlighten the fact that the majority of these QSO's are "hit it & quit it, slam bam thank you mamm", if they're even called at all. Telling uninformed government officials who possess little technical knowledge, yet foolishly possess regulatory powers, that only 100 watts or less is really only needed to "talk around the world" is incredibly misleading and coupled with your other comments paints a very distorted picture, to people who do not know any better, that things are already recklessly excessive and seemingly constantly abused with life & limb at risk across the nation, where freedoms should actually be restricted if any action is to be taken at all. Again, just because you operated legal limit in a neighborhood w/ HIGHLY predictable results, does not mean that everyone else should be restricted to your particular circumstances, experiences, or opinions. I get just as annoyed like anyone else who runs excessively distorted transmissions, but I get equally annoyed w/ those running 100 watts fully clipped, err I mean "compression", as I do for the 1.5KW stations who don't understand the gift of clarity that increased dynamic headroom provides. Seems a lot of folks confuse high power w/ crappy operating practices; the ridiculous restriction of power amplifier gain won't fix crappy operating practices, it needs to be done on the CQ'ing station's side by everyone worldwide where they politely refuse to QSO w/ crappy operators who have crappy transmissions while informing everyone on frequency of their reasons why. There's a guy from Wales who goes QRT when people start acting like fools / amateurs; I wish more stations would go QRT & explain why when the frequency becomes a cluster f..... Restricting gain on power amplifiers DOES ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to solve the issues of crappy transmission quality, it only INCREASES the chances of poor operation, poor gain matching, and confounding ALC time constants / action between power amp stages when going QRO. The individual who learned while running 100watts is accustomed to pegging the ALC to the limit for "Around the world QSO's" w/ crap audio quality (ie "compression"); the 15dB max gain restriction does not help to fix this mentality because this imposed limit is in itself a built in government regulated "compression ratio" and most legal limit amps I've seen take the safe way for regulatory compliance by further reducing gain below the 15dB gain restriction where you still need to run a 100w transceiver at near maximum output in order to eek out full rated output of the outboard linear... As evidenced time & time again from other industries that use amplifiers or power gain stages, it would seem very logical to propose that you'd actually see CLEANER signals on the air if the gain restriction was lifted & maximum PEP limits were increased. With a high gain outboard PA, a 100 W transceiver would have to output only a small fraction of maximum power, thus requiring severe reduction in transceiver output gain adjustment & eliminating the chance that the transceiver's ALC line being activated / modulated / tickled by two different & separately operating PA stages going into overload (ie the only amp activating the ALC line would be the outboard PA & you could no longer rely upon slightly overdriving the transceiver PA for "Compression"; the predictable / intentioned / LP filtered DSP compression algorithm within the transceiver would have to be used instead unless you like blowing out & replacing output linear finals). Running the transceiver at drastically reduced output power also reduces I^2R losses which should help to reduce ground loop current induced noise / RFI voltages to the transceiver during transmit. If one had an infinite power output capacity, the ONLY way to compress a signal would be in the mic audio pre-amp / DSP stages which are always tightly & predictably low pass filtered to reduce distortion products from reaching the PA; increasing the maximum PEP limit would help to increase potential dynamic headroom within the entire output chain so that the purposed audio frequency compression system MUST be relied upon to boost average signal output. The crappy wide splattering signals you hear on the air are because of overdriven PA's artificially clipped by constant ALC action, not because of audio frequency compression. It doesn't make a lot of basic engineering sense to restrict peak dynamic headroom to resolve issues caused & rooted by a system that lacks necessary dynamic headroom... Furthermore, it does not make a lot of sense to restrict maximum gain of a PA to fix issues & complaints rooted from the inherent wide-band nonlinear compression that limited gain creates in a PA that's tasked w/ linearly amplifying high dynamic range input signals... The current gain restriction encourages overdriving of the transceiver PA output, who's non-linear distortion byproducts will be amplified & further intermodulated with the outboard PA's own distortion characteristics; why would anyone in their right mind advocate for the potential introduction of a needless non-linear effect in a gain stage when their entire soapbox is founded upon the annoying non-linear byproducts of overdriven gain stages?!?!?! MAKES NO SENSE! I really hate to end with this subtle & subversive ad-hominem style of 'argument' to pound things down further; however, anyone arguing that government regulated gain restriction is a good thing for fixing the issues inherently caused by limited gain itself, denies well known basic fundamental remedial engineering 050 principles & lacks the ability to understand basic binary logic. Unbeknownst to you, the overreaching rules & regulations that you feel the need to impose on others who you arrogantly believe to be incompetent, are actually intentioned for folks such as yourself...
