The First MotoTrbo Ham Repeater In New York City

Eventually, one of the standards will "win" the market, and the rest will fall by the wayside. That's the way it always goes. Eventually, there will be a de-facto digital voice standard in amateur radio - it just hasn't been chosen by the market (us) yet. Give it time.

 

Thank you very much W2GLD you said it right!

People have a hard time accepting change...W2GLD you hit on all cylinders with your post kudos to you...We are having a whole lot of fun here in NYC with this. The coverage people involved etc...It's a great growing technology it's simply awesome..And by the way all are welcome to join us http://www.facebook.com/photo_searc...3925&view=all#!/group.php?gid=112582768753925 W2JOE...Joe

 

Neither side of these debates ever makes the least effort to understand the other. If they did, then I suspect there'd be much less rancor and much more tolerant attitudes.

The hams who complain about this stuff aren't "afraid" of technology. They simply don't think that the hobby is about all/any form of communications technology that pops up, and they believe that some forms of communications, when introduced into ham radio, run counter to the spirit of the hobby. This is not an indictment of the technology itself, mind you, just of its impact on ham radio.

An analogy: Suppose you're a runner and you run the Boston Marathon every year when someone makes the following proposal: So long as participants in the marathon begin and/or end the race on foot, they can use other forms of transportation the rest of the time and still count has having completed the race. If someone really did make this proposal and it started catching on, I guarantee you that a lot of runners would be up in arms about it. Is this because they're afraid of the "automotive" technology that might be introduced into the marathon? No. They just think that having people ride around in cars defeats the purpose of the marathon, of their hobby. Nevertheless, if people could ride in cars for most of the race, lots of people who are currently unable to participate could join in. The contest would become safer and less strenuous for participants. People would complete the race in incredible new record times, etc.

On the other hand, to those who complain about the incorporation of these newer technologies into ham radio, it's important to bear in mind people may have different views about the nature and goals of ham radio, and some people might just think that ham radio is about buying and using the most cutting edge communications technology available, whatever that happens to be. You might find this attitude offensive, but then it is up to you to either change their minds with arguments or learn to contain your frustration. Just issuing blanket condemnations of their actions is not going to persuade anyone that your view of the hobby is the correct one, and will only lead to more resentment.

 

The problem here is that W2KTU did not mean to start a debate or offend anyone by starting this thread...he simply put out the fact that there is a MOTOTRBO repeater located in NYC that has great coverage and ALL are invited to use. He even attached a link to a web page that has all the repeaters information, as well as its users.

The first couple of replies started to rip the post a part. Whether its change or old time values...Momma always told me "if you have nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all!" But then again...in this Ham community...If you say nothing but nice things to people, you'll either end up being very quiet, or a liar!

Enjoy the hobby gentlemen!

73 de N2XJS

 

just enjoy the hobby and go with it.

If it were to some of the old timers Ham radio would still be as it was in the beginning. What some of you need to understand is ham radio is for everyone who is licenced. We want to get new people into the hobby. Kid's , teenagers, men ,women, everyone or the hobby will die. MotoTrbo is here to stay so get used to it. I am not asking anyone for any money, god knows some of you still have the first dime you got from the tooth fairy. The option is there if you want it. ......kc2cqr

 

I am all for trying out new technologies. As far as competing protocols, CW could be looked at as a protocol, different from SSB, different from AM, different from RTTY, different from FM. Amateur radio has a long and distinguished history of trying out, adopting, and and sometimes inventing new protocols.

The greatest thing is that there is more than enough space for all of us to enjoy our particular "pet" part of ham radio.

 

Well put Frank "just enjoy the hobby" comeon guys this isn't a sale but an invitation to check out something very interesting in the hobby..been into radio for 32 years and never saw anything like this before, people have their own opinions and have a right to do so .... but ... look into it for yourself before just throwing it away or making comments, Great bunch of guys went far and beyond and alot of hours to get this up and running..I am personally glad to be a part of this group..

 

Dave no one is asking you for any money so what is the problem ?

 

Bill no one wants to sell you anything, MotoTrbo is all over the world. Keep it in New York is a very childish statement.

 

where does it say we are trying to sell something ? no one is asking for your credit card. We put a lot of time in this project, all W2ktu said is that a mototrbo repeater went up. All are welcome.

 

MotoTRBO

To those flaming those of us experimenting with systems such as DMR, please educate yourself prior to posting.....

1) Yes, it is legal to use. But don't trust me....check the Part 97 rules if you wish.

2) To wit #1, above, it is based on a PUBLISHED standard: DMR (Digital Mobile Radio). The FCC is very specific that published standards are fair game for use on the ham bands as long as they meet emissions requirements.

3) The DMR / MotoTRBO repeaters support analog and digital if configured to do so (just as in P25 systems).

4) Just because you don't have use for interconnected (IP-based) radios, doesn't mean that someone else in the hobby isn't interested in it. Not all experimentation in amateur radio has to be tied directly to the transmitter or receiver itself; there is plenty of knowledge to be learned / gained / developed by experimenting with interconnected systems as well.

5) Hams are behind any effort to experiment with this mode on the ham bands; to the best of my knowledge, I haven't seen a single ad pushing this to the amateur community and I would be surprised if you ever did (at least from Mot). And, these are not single-source radios.


The DMR (maybe that is what this should be termed rather than MotoTRBO since that is just a corporate identity placed on a industry standard system) system was designed to meet the FCC narrowbanding requirement in commercial part 90 systems. The result is 2 seperate voice, or one voice and one data channel, in a single channel without the need for traditional guard bands or individual offsets to allow power combining.

Kudos to those experimenting with it.....every system introduced to ham radio was at first attacked by those wanting to hold on to only the status quo. Nobody is telling you to buy it or use it nor are they taking anything away from what you have now.

I, for one, think it is pretty cool to be able to talk to other hams around the world on an IP-linked system. And I'm still an old CW and AM kind of ham....

Don't knock it until you've tried it. And don't take away form someone elses enjoyment in ham radio unless it has a detrimental effect on your enjoyment factor.

73

 

And the FM repeaters are getting quieter and quieter and quieter...

 

@ K9QI - Very well said and thank you for stating the facts.

Being part of the group...and I must admit hesitant at first...I'm am enjoying the digital mode while driving around the NYC area. NYC is known for intermod and the best VHF/UHF Ham radio's can not eliminate it at times. These Motorola radio's can and do a great job at it. Also...in this area we have a lot of jamming going on and it's sad. With these digital radio's, everyone is assigned a number and their callsign is shown every time they transmit so everyone is responsible for their transmissions! I have a mobile setup in my work vehicle, which I put an average of 75 to 100 miles a day through out the City's 5 Boroughs, and it's an absolute pleasure to listen to "responsible" transmissions, great conversations by all in the group...and no Intermod!

@ N2NOV - We listen to your net as much as possible and we were just discussing the other night how it would be great to have your net on a system like this where you would be heard and not interfered with and the net would benefit all. Hope to hear you on the system soon!

73 de N2XJS

 

Well said, Gerald!

As one poster in a previous thread so aptly put it, thanks largely to the work of our ever-shrinking, but still highly vocal cadre of resident Luddites, our once forward-looking radio service is now being increasingly viewed by our regulators and others as the "Radio Amish"....firmly stuck in the distant sociological and technological past and perfectly content to remain that way.

Unfortunately, in a world where the broad (and largely underused) slices of radio spectrum we currently occupy are becoming an increasingly valuable commercial commodity, I fear our "Amish" ways WILL eventually prove to be our undoing

73,

Keith
KB1SF / VA3KSF

 

From what I've learned so far, MotoTrbo and Dstar both use a proprietary code called AMBE.
Does the AMBE patent fully disclose that code? The USPTO does allows some methods to remain unpublished because of proprietary intellectual property ownership rights.
According to the owner of the code, a licensing fee has to be paid in order to use the technology, or you need to own the radio that already has the licensed technology built-in. That is because the code owner wants to limit amateur experimentation; it protects their profit margin and intellectual property rights.
TDMA is certainly the FCC radio emission type, but the AMBE code being used to obscure the voice is still in the grey area for me. If a ham were to reverse engineer the AMBE (I guess someone has for Dstar), and then use the technology to allow amateur experimentation on the mode, doesn't that still violate the patent rights?
Since Mototrbo and Dstar are both using the AMBE protocol, are they really interoperable? Can we use Dstar digital voice to contact mototrbo digital voice? Was there an agreement made between manufactures to allow for interoperability?
Does the CQR repeater use the digital mode at all? How does the repeater ID? If mototrbo gear has push-button-like access to encryption, doesn't that make it inappropriate for use on the ham band?

Thanks to those people who addressed my questions. This thread is starting to taste like the last ROS thread- it seems like some of the same remarks made then are being cut and paste onto this discussion.