The First MotoTrbo Ham Repeater In New York City

Where did you get this idea?

"DStar" is THE accepted digital mode? WRONG!!! We call it DOLLAR Star for a reason. Icom has to GIVE AWAY the repeaters as no one wants to buy them for what Icom rips you off for. "Dstar" was designed by the JARL and Icom was the only one to take the hook...the rest didnt want to bother.

Do we expect MOTOTRBO to pop up across the country? Yes...backed by a much better company than Icom, with a better price and a 2 year warranty.
I can buy a MOTOTRBO 450 Mhz RPTR for LESS than a Icom, the handhelds for slightly more then a piece of junk 92A. DSTAR is * NOT* spreading like you think, in fact they are SITTING on shelves across the nation.The Icom 92A is a POOR PERFORMING radio, it's RF front end is a joke. Motorola equipment will run circles around ANY DStar radio HANDS DOWN. I use radios in the public service area daily, the MOTOTRBO will do that, the Icom DStar will not!

Got a newsflash for ya, MOTOTRBO is up and running in Los Angeles, Ca.Also in Phoenix,Az. Chicago,Il. and Germany.I am getting a quote on a 40 Watt 450Mhz system and handhelds for Las Vegas, Nv. as I type this. I plan to have 4 XPR6550 radios in less then a week.

The cold hard fact is this. If your a HAM that enjoys STAYING UP ON TECHNOLOGY then Motorola/MOTOTRBO, APCO-25 and the newer stuff is they way to go. Stay current, ride the technology wave...
If your an "Appliance Operator" stay with Icom, buy the substandard junk they push your way, with double conversion RCVR's and poor build quality. I doubt you will even compare the published specs (because you dont know what they mean anyways). Be brand loyal!!! wear that ICOM hat proudly.
Things could be worse! You could be telling me that Yaesu has the "Accepted" system hahaha. Pray to god that you dont have to get it serviced!!
Either system is a investment, might as well get your money,enjoyment from it.BOTH systems work, but I HIGHLY doubt you have had a MOTOTRBO for a weekend to try out and test. * I HAVE *.I have also tried out a Icom DStar radio for a week, couldnt wait to give it back.3 days into the test I quit using it. I hated the RX audio! Coverage was substandard. My HUGE Motorola Astro-Saber outperformed that Icom in every aspect. The Las Vegas area is flooded with RF,especially the famed "Strip" area and is no place for a Icom 91/92A. They simply cant hack it,Analog or digital.In Las Vegas we have over 14 927Mhz repeaters in service,Icom has not realized the 900Mhz band exists, but Motorola's handhelds newer radios cover that band WITHOUT modification!! Guess what!! MOTOTRBO is available on 900Mhz!! covers the entire 800/941Mhz band! For the HAM that also uses 800Mhz that means ONE radio for both..DAMN!! still another reason to go MOTOTRBO and forget Icom...

73's! DE WB6EGR Las Vegas

 

Nothing against MotoTRBO, but it will be interesting (and when) 1)TRBO has over 12,000 registered users, 530+ gateways on-line (which means at least 1 repeater 2) can link up to Reflectors by users or automatic 3) can do callsign routing so if your friends are in another city, it will find them automatically, 4) can send pictures, files, text and view mapping 5) 128k data on 1.2gs virtual ethernet 6) Dongle, DVAP and Hotspot 7) etc etc etc

So "radios sitting on shelves" doesn't seem quite accurate now... over 12,000 hams have at least 1 radio (or DVAP or Dongle or Hotspot)

Maybe TRBO can do things like that when someone writes the apps for it.

Just my 2¢ worth.


...DOUG
KD4MOJ

 

While generally, I won't disagree with overall Motorola receiver performance, there is one thing no one has yet mentioned that does impact the cost and utility of using Motorola equipment.

Motorola radios are usually not freeware supported and not keyboard programmable. To program the gear, you must purchase software from mother M. Usually at a very high price. Or, pay someone at a Motorola shop to do it for you.

Sure, want to add a new pair? Simply go to the nearest Motorola service center and pay through the nose to add a repeater. Analog or digital. Hold your nose.

Do DSTAR radios require purchase of software to program them? If so, at very nominal cost, not hundreds of dollars for software and interfaces. For the most part, amateur equipment is keyboard programmable. The ICOM repeaters may be also.

The mode sounds interesting and useful. Congrats to those who have systems up and operating. It doesn't appear to have the built in vulnerabilities of trunked radio.....assuming simplex and analog operation are possible. Should an emergency happen, will it be able to communicate with other analog stations not normally on the system? And, will mobiles travellling to locations where only analog is available be useable without going to a Motorola shop to permit analog operation?

I had to chuckle when an earlier poster suggested going to the BatLabs site as a source of innovation. Frankly, the innovation there is how to convert, use, and/or modify Motorola equipment for use on the ham bands. And, mostly based on the sea of surplus gear available at a low cost. And, how to change firmware limited frequency range on many of the radios that preclude use on the ham bands.

Innovation by amateurs in the surplus mobile radio technology area has always been somewhat limited. Why? Since traditionally, amateurs have acquired older gear from agencies and businesses that have removed it and replaced it with newer equipment. Many, like me, do appreciate the rugged design and superior overall performance of commercial equipment. (Like no mini muffin fans for the heat sinks or inside the radios)

If someone were to devise a couple of sneak circuits that could be added to the transmitters and receivers of currently owned and operated gear to permit digital mode operation, that would be innovation. Sort of like the single sideband phasing adaptors of yesteryear for AM transmitters.

Just simply purchasing and using commerciall digital mode equipment isn't innovation. Whether DSTAR, P25 or Moto-whizbang. It's simply buying and using someone else's invention.

If Pactor, Olivia, PSK and a small digital audio box can all be easily connected to existing SSB equipment, we can do similar things with digital modes at VHF and UHF. Sure, surface mount boards are tough to work with, but it can be done. Who knows, someone out there just might come up with something as novel as the Tuscon Amateur Packet Radio group did when it invented X.25.

Many of us are concerned about interoperability in times of crisis. To truly be interoperable, equipment has to be frequency and mode flexible and not rely on going to a shop or taking along a laptop, software and such to be useful. For those with commercial gear of modern design with at least 125 channels, usually the entire amateur band(s) can be programmed into fixed memories. Perhaps, both analog and digital can be as well here. But, keep in mind that frequency and mode flexibility on the fly is a very important characteristic.

 

Icom VS Motorola

Point(s) well taken Lee. The MOTOTRBO handhelds will do 1000 channels, so most "Combinations" can indeed be programmed into them.For "Emergency" situations I agree that flexability is needed. However this does not mean your daily radio equipment needs to be "Substandard" in performance just to have a VFO at your disposal. I work in a high RF area on a daily basis (The Las Vegas Strip/Downtown area) and trust me on this, the ICOM/Yaesu/Kenwood handhelds are "NOT ACCEPTABLE" in overload/image/desense abilities.They simply roll over and die or emit useless noises/gurgles. My Motorola HT-1250 and Astro-Saber continue to work in this area. One of the guys owns a Icom 92A handheld with D-Star in it and the radio is USELESS in this area! He turns it off most of the time.
The Motorola MOTOTRBO radios are indeed backwards compatible,they will operate Analog as well as digital, the repeaters have "Steering" inputs, they can not only change from Analog/digital, they can MOVE FREQUENCY remotely!! There is a 30 second delay while it switches modes.The "Data" services blow away anything D-Star has to offer. Motorola will continue to upgrade and improve and SUPPORT the end user, Icom wont as soon as another model come out.The Motorola radios are "IP57" rated, means they will take abuse like underwater in 3 feet of water for 30 minutes.Not that your going to dive with a radio, but try talking on a Icom 92A in the wind/rain!
For someone to quote "Icom D-Star is THE accepted digital standard" in HAM radio is complete bunk! What it REALLY means is that Icom was the ONLY company that decided to jump on the JARL designed digital mode. It's available to ANY company! I know you can purchase Dongles/Dingles/Doodles Whatchamacallits for D-Star, just pony up $200 for this workarounds.Icom is betting on this as they are the SOLE SOURCE for this junk.
With the amount of P-25 stuff available and now MOTOTRBO rolling out, there is no reason to go with a soon the be obsolete/pricey D-Star system.P-25 and MOTOTRBO are here to stay, D-Star is a flash in the pan (like Yaesu WIRES).
If Icom offered me a * FREE * D-Star UHF system repeater today I would turn the offer down! I will not pay around $600 for a loaded Icom radio/accessories when I can have Motorola build quality/performance FOR THE SAME PRICE. The Icom 92A is a TOY, the Motorola XPR-6550 is a RADIO, it's like comparing a 22 caliber derringer to a 50 caliber hand-cannon for the same investment.
This is why you DO NOT see public service agencies using Icom/Kenwood/Yaesu (if they have any common sense at all).
Instead of being "Brand Loyal" I strongly suggest doing a "Google" on "Motorola MOTOTRBO" and read some of the sites/notes/info on them. Your going to be surprised what it can do, and how far behind the Icom D-Star platform really is. THERE IS A REASON no one else has jumped on the open platform (AMBE) of D-Star!!! Think about that "outside the box"....

Kirk

 

Digital Mode Comparison

Good site to see how the various digital radios compare in voice quality.

http://www.hamradio-dv.org/