USA exams system endorsed by ACMA

Discussion in 'Amateur Radio News' started by G4TUT, Sep 27, 2019.

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  1. VK3DQ

    VK3DQ XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    Hi Folks

    But what was forgotten was that to be granted a VK license you need to pass the regulations and the practical so thats $70 x 2 another $140

    To hold a VK license you MUST have a certificate of proficiency and to get that you must have the practical . Regulations and Theory or RPL

    So its actually slightly more expensive using the RPL method.

    I think that some confusion in these matters happened after Dianne retired . Assessors will recall that all paperwork had to be 100% or it got sent back to you (grin)

    Lets make it clear that the exams get you a Certificate of Proficiency its that that allows you to apply for a license , so no COP no License,,or thats how its supposed to be


    John Fisher VK3DQ
  2. VK3DQ

    VK3DQ XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    Hi Folks

    Its not true that here in Australia we have NO "'online " study material , I refer of course to Ron Bertram's Radio electronics school which offers study material for all license levels many standard calls for example use Ron's CD/DVD to study and in fact many Advanced calls used the "Novice" study CD and obtained their qualifications using this study material ...

    I must congratulate RON VK2DQ for his efforts in this area of amateur radio over many years

    Best Regards

    John Fisher VK3DQ
    VK6NSB likes this.
  3. VK3VM

    VK3VM XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    C R A P ! The tenders when examined on all fronts meant more of the same, as the mindset, history and motive behind the WIA tender was flawed.

    Don't fall for a lot of that argument as the unsuccessful tenderer's also put in cost structures SIMILAR or within a couple of dollars to that which we have now.

    You can blame that solely and squarely on a lack of vision back in 2009 ... When a contract was negotiated BY THE FORMER TENDERER for $0 with the ACMA. Even "Blind Freddie" could have predicted the long term consequences(see my Newtonian comments later).

    Vision and Consequence . There was a significant lack of vision and understanding what the consequences of what was put forward would be ! The fact is that thee functions should NEVER have been allowed leave the regulator !

    Then there was the real issue that ignited the chaos within Australia ... When a group in Queensland 4 or 5 years back started a campaign of $0 licenses. Yes I entered this argument I had inside information that The ACMA had done a study and found that it was not economic to collect Amateur Licenses... yet the Representative Body at the time, knowing that their was some financial inscentive for themselves vigorously prosecuted the false argument that No licence Fees means no service.

    This argument is unconstitutional.

    The bite-back and ethics employed by REPRESENTATVE BODIES trying to justify their flawed positions identified was deplorable and set off a lot of the nastiness and extreme bitterness that we have in Australian AR today !

    Many of us (me included) are still to this day working HARD behind the scenes - putting pressure on The ACMA and Ministry - to reverse and change these mindsets. Unfortunately the mindset in ONE "REPRESENTATIVE" BODY who still sends the SAME PEOPLE TO REPRESENT US THAT PROSECUTED THIS ARGUMENT is still VERY MUCH THE SAME.

    We have had short-sighted vision in our representation - and not just here in Australia.

    Don't whinge and bitch here - ask the REPRESENTATIVE BODY that was responsible for all this these questions? Ask them what they are going to REALLY do about this ! Ask them how they are going to bring costs down through their representative efforts. No they won't - as they are more concerned about protecting their own "gravy trains" (i.e. To Egypt), resumes and egos.... rather than subscribing to HAM - Help All Mankind.

    Newton's Laws of Motion apply HEAVILY here:

    - First law: An object either remains at rest or continues to move at a constant velocity, unless acted upon by a force. (i.e. ACMA, WIA, Amateur Radio)
    - Second law: The vector sum of the forces on an object is equal to the mass m of that object multiplied by the acceleration a of the object: F = ma. (The force = ACMA, Commercial resistance to AR, Mass = Australian Amateurs, a = excitement, coordinated interest and directed leadership of Amateurs )
    - Third law: When one body exerts a force on a second body, the second body simultaneously exerts a force equal in magnitude and opposite in direction on the first body. (i.e. the basic law that defines Government and Bureaucrats).

    It took just a few meetings in 2009 to create the same and the mindsets that we are now dealing with today. It will take a MASSIVE COLLECTIVE, UNIFIED EFFORT to change mindsets. Some REPRESENTATIVE BODIES need to STOP SOOKING and think with V I S I O N !!! While there is still sniggering and backstabbing in the background - and putting people and whatever little contribution they are making down we will get nowhere.

    On that subject no more comment from me as I am off to the Local Community Radio Station - who by the way pays NO LICENCE FEES and has had MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF FUNDS THROWN AT IT BY THE ACMA.
  4. VK4HAT

    VK4HAT Ham Member QRZ Page

    Last time I looked it was not online, it was offline and only ran on a windows PC. Its funny, the people you hold up as examples of virtue, my experience with them has been somewhat different.

    I used the RES Fcall videos to obtain fcall, i paid for the materials it arrived and i spent the next week hacking the DRM out of it and extracting the videos into a format that would run on an Android tablet, found out months later they were all on youtube for free, I dont like being scammed. Not what i was expecting but we got there in the end. I did the exact same thing with the Standard course. I really should not have to hack and convert stuff so it can run on other platforms other than windows in the modern age but it is what it is.

    Ron was running the upgrade exam session at last years WIA AGM on the Gold Coast, I was prepared to drive 2 hours each way to sit an exam session. I asked the WIA for details they pointed me to Ron and the hosting club on the Gold Coast. I emailed both and did not get a reply back from anyone. A couple months later I was told of a US exam in Brisbane 20mins from where I live, I contacted them, within 30mins i had all the details and a week later I went and passed Tech and General and used that to upgrade to Standard.

    I know i am not the only one whose experience from the whole VK system has been less than appalling, appalling would be a huge improvement. I contacted many clubs and examiners directly and never heard back from all but 1 of them. And yes I used a gmail account and i know how to look in my spam folder. None replied but one who wanted to interview me to see if he thought i was of "Moral Character" to hold a license other than Foundation. Seems he thought that being a WIA examiner made him the gate keeper to keep the riff raff out or anyone he felt did not belong. I told him to stuff it in his hat, in very plane construction worker language.

    So yeah, there is the IDEAL that many think exists and the REALITY of what many newbies have to go through. We can only hope that things under the AMC improve the newbie experience and remove the power trippers from the equation. With many news examiners coming on board now because the old gatekeeper who kept people out no longer has any power it seems that is one part of the equation is fixed. We can only hope that the syllabus review board like wise brings the exam content into the 21st century and makes it relevant for today.
  5. N6TDG

    N6TDG Ham Member QRZ Page

    It is interesting to read you folks about the system there in Australia. I am here in the US and a very non-technical guy but can usually follow directions. The US system is geared toward making sure everyone practices safe procedures and to avoid holding the antenna in your mouth while transmitting... For Technician and General, the tests are relatively easy. The Extra is more technical and math oriented. (formulas). If one wanted to just get on the air (HF) then they could stop at General and be happy and transmit up to 1500W PEP across the aether. Granted there are some band restrictions.

    I was able to study by myself and find a testing location and take the test at my leisure at a $10 charge. I changed my initial call when I became a General to something else for free.

    I do think amateurs there should push further for a system that is more like the US...It could introduce more amateurs into the hobby...maybe come up with a slogan like "Radio Justice!" to borrow from the Social Justice Warriors here in the States. It might be enough to shake some fruit from the trees, so to speak...
    VK4HAT likes this.
  6. VK4HAT

    VK4HAT Ham Member QRZ Page

    We had one of them and it turned into a failed experiment. I am not sure we really need another just yet. What we do need is for younger people to move into positions where change can occur. The problem we face, is we have one generation moving from prominence to insignificance and they are not liking the whole idea all that much. You only have to look at the ranty posts in this thread to see what i mean, take something small you can rant about and ignore the point being made. My experiences with the system, as poor as it has been, has to be wrong because they are right. There is not much anyone can do in that situation other than grin and bare it.

    In all honesty, i am amazed that i have gotten this far in the hobby and have remained here at all. I have been seriously thinking over the last few weeks to pack it all up and walk away. I was an fcall that home brewed, learned CW, enjoyed DXing, contesting and going portable, you would think that people like myself would have been the poster boys of success for the foundation license, but quite the opposite. Many would rather see me gone, all fcalls are dummies who want something for nothing and do not want to learn or upgrade and we really dont want them on our bands. Its funny as an fcall i was constantly accused of running more power by people running more power. Now i am standard I could key up a 2kw square wave on 40m and work stations on all the harmonics and no one would even notice me.

    It is what it is. And what it is mostly is crap. And there is not much i can do to fix that. I have had one guy email about 100 people to tell them not to work me because i was a pirate numbers station, same guy accused me of running more than 1kw from a HB1B 4w cw rig because i worked Spain and he could not with 400w. I have been accused of running more power than legal even though many of the radios i used only had output powers of 4 to 12 watts. I have had one guy make a video about me personally being the cause of the destruction of ham radio as we know it. And the list of atrocities goes on and on. Not a single one of these I am right types has ever said im sorry that happened to you, its always I had to walk to school uphill both ways in the snow with no shoes, so suck it up princess.

    It is what it is alright. And what it is is mostly crap.
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2019
  7. VK3DQ

    VK3DQ XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    Oh Dear Me ....

    Ask the many whom have sat at my family room table about how exams were conducted , the first order of business was to as Tea, Coffee or Bonox ..get the candidate relaxed and happy ...

    the small group with whom i worked went out of their way to ensure candidates were relaxed during their exam and during training we concentrated on the items we knew appeared in the exams so time was not wasted in obscure issues
    We made all candidates welcome ... our aim was to help not hinder

    John VK3DQ
  8. VK3VM

    VK3VM XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    I got into the whole business in this forum posting as a result of complaints received at Amateur Radio Victoria while I was assisting with assessments.

    Now for circumstances and reason why ... and for legal reasons I have to be VERY careful here:

    Around 12 hours before an assessment 4 or so years back at Amateur Radio Victoria (ARV) commenced candidates reported that had heard me as a participant in a conversation on a repeater with an Amateur skylarking about how a circumvention of the Australian Licensing System had been prosecuted.

    The matter revolved around a confusion that allegedly was set up where The WIA had allegedly received a call from The ACMA (That The ACMA claim they have no record of ever being made ) directing them to issue an Advanced Licence to an holder of a Technician Class Licence.

    Frankly I could not have given a "rats backside" at the time I was involved in that conversation; yet when candidates raised serious concerns re the unfairness to them of what they had heard then I, as an ethical person and ethical Assessor under WIA supervision, had no option but to properly and effectively prosecute their concerns to its full conclusion.

    There was subsequently a whole comedy "misadventures"; I was was even emailed the entire ACMA file that divulged HIGHLY PERSONAL details based around the granting of that licence. I was even threatened by The ACMA when I HAD DONE NOTHING WRONG !!!

    That license still stands and is "grandfathered". I have not rested FOR YEARS prosecuting this complaint - based on THE CANDIDATE'S CONCERNS how UNFAIR IT WAS FOR THEM.

    And The ACMA had all the right information in fromt of them to act fairly towards all Australians ....

    The whole matter was obfuscated by influential Amateurs within The WIA and assessment system that became aware of this through direct contact with affected parties and were concerned that their Advanced Licenses obtained through the reciprocal agreements would be overturned ... and some may have been assessors themselves.

    Subsequently I have been effectively labelled as "persona non-grata" by many organisations and bad-mouthed extensively in order to isolate and discredit. The bad mouthing still continues extensively today. Before this matter 300-odd assessments - since then - 1 (and recommendations for others to be assessors).

    It took 4 years ... Ombudsman ... Hundreds of pages of communications .... 4 years for the ACMA to act on my concerns - concluding with bullying and isolation bullying that Amateurs can be notorious for promoting. Note that other assessors that I worked with said that The ACMA and WIA had been contacted CONSTANTLY since 2006 about the issue....

    Now there facts and I state that FACTS are now in the open.

    People say to me "How can you say that the system now is better"?



    THIRDLY it is GOOD that a fully documented-process-driven organisation from a stable, 150-year old internationally reputable Academic entity is now in control of PROCESS (but not AR). There can be nothing but PROCEDURAL FAIRNESS TO ALL NOW.

    There fact - and strictly fact without distortion - is now in the open.

    Its time to end discussion here; I reported the topic to Moderators due to GROSS REPORTING INACCURACY (i.e. FAKE NEWS) and they have ignored me and let this run. This is doing SERIOUS DAMAGE to AR letting this run as a number of participants are like rabid dogs are entrenched. All I am doing is REPORTING FACT. This is heading into boundaries that could lead to legal pursuit - so moderators please delete the ENTIRE POSTING !
  9. SM0AOM

    SM0AOM Ham Member QRZ Page

    The main lessons learned from this should be that licensing matters never should be
    "out-sourced" to non-transparent and politically driven entities regardless of where in the world they are located.

  10. VK3VM

    VK3VM XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    Karl-Arne ..... exactly.

    Yet The ARRL run the US System and RSGB The UK System. The WIA lost administration of the Australian System earlier this year ... Putting 2 + 2 together?

    This has run shivers down the spine of many (and many big egos) in the International Amateur Radio Community.

    The former WIA Present, Michael Owen Vk3KI (sk) did many great things for AR. He was a key negotiator of the initial contract. He used to say to me and often (as he knew about other professional interaction that I had with The ACMA) "Don't upset the ACMA as we do not want to lose the Assessment Contract". We lost significant bandwidth etc. under his tenure - and he defended The ACMA.

    Many issues that VK2HAT raise have been compounded by this hamstring. Yet as we all know Amateurs are VERY conservative in outlook and play very badly inter-personally with each other.

    Many of us (including RASA - who I joined on Friday 27/9/19) are working behind the scenes to change this - and in particular to unify Australian Amateurs.

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