The First MotoTrbo Ham Repeater In New York City

I thought TDMA was removed by commercial wireless myself. So if it's comsidered an outdated digital technology, why are these people using it for a repeater? And also, why another single-manufacturer operating mode at that?

This is why I don't even consider D-STAR to be a REAL option as an Amateur Radio operations mode. I do agree with experimentation in our hobby, but it should be to further it, not dumb it down.

 

Reminds me of an old Jugghead comic from years back. Jugghead was sitting beside his phone feeling sad.

"Why are you sad?", someone asked.

"Because no one ever calls me", Jugghead said.

"Maybe you should get a second phone."

LOL...as though having two phones would double the number of calls.

Oh, wait a minute.....

 

First off if most of you flamers would do a little research before opening your mouths and making yourself look like a bigger idiot it would help. I was always taught it is better to be thought stupid than to speak up and prove it.

Now on to the subject at hand. Mototrbo is indeed a 2 time slot(TS) TDMA system with IP inter connect capabilities. This has been discussed before hand. This system will run in either Analog or Digital but as I understand Motorola hasn't released a firmware upgrade to allow the repeater to switch operation without someone doing it at the site. With P25 CAI base stations like the Quantar the repeater is capable of either Digital or Analog operation depending on what type of signal is on the input at that time. The Quantar in digital P25 mode (FDMA) and Analog can only carry one single radio conversation at a time. With Mototrbo you have 2 TS TDMA that allows you to have 2 digital conversations on the same carrier using alternating TS allocations. In other words one can be a local conversation while the other uses the IP connect and can be in wide area/linked with other repeaters. When in analog mode the repeater can only handle one conversation at a time just like conventional analog repeaters we have today

This is all an OPEN format that is publicly published. It is an ETSI standard that you can download all the information from the ETSI website.

TS 102 361-1 (Air Interface)
TS 102 361-2 (Voice and Generic Services)
TS 102 361-3 (Packet Data Protocol)

P25 Phase 1 is FDMA and I understand P25 Phase 2 will also be 2 TS TDMA as well.

I am all for old time CW operation as well as regular old FM. I am also very much in favor of newer digital formats for communication as lets face it... it is the way of the future. The beauty of digital voice communication can only be realized when you operate it on a regular basis. No more popcorn, popping and cracking, etc. It is just pure clean audio without degrading like conventional FM has now. The error correction is another plus as well...

I have been licensed since age 15 and I am now 31. This is an exciting time for amateur radio experimentation and formats like this allow experimentation. Lets further our hobby not hinder it. If we do not adapt to newer technologies we are further limiting ourselves in emergencies as well.

I am not an elitist but I understand more and more every day why most people that truly understand communications can't stand to be around ham radio operators. It is a shame but most of hams are happy being in the "Good old days"... I for one am moving on with the hobby and will be deploying a TDMA repeater sometime in the not to distant future..

Rant off...

Shane KI4M

 

Oh they're not trying to sell me anything. Then explain this from the MOTOTRBO web site.

It's been said that MOTOTRBO PRICING is "comparable" to similar analog solutions. What does that mean?
Motorola made an investment in the MOTOTRBO technology platform in order to bring integrated applications and advanced functionality to the large organization/enterprise two-way radio market. MOTOTRBO was developed to be offered at a competitive price-point compared to existing analog two-way radio solutions. As a result, we believe that MOTOTRBO provides such increased functionality and operational efficiency that end-users will want to move to digital platforms faster.

HMMM pricing means BUYING something!

 

I'm wondering where the TRBO tatoo is...

Seriously, I'm all for the employment and experimentation of two or 4-slot TDMA with various recognized codecs. That's what ham radio is all about, guys. Just don't use encryption, and I'm good.

73.

 

It is being done already.

http://forums.radioreference.com/trunking-control-channel-decoding/177609-digital-speech-decoder-1-2-mbelib-1-1-released.html

No, they are not interoperable.

AMBE is not encryption, and as far as I know none of the MotorTrbo gear out there has real encryption without adding an extra option board. Calling AMBE encryption would be like a person who owns AM only rigs calling SSB encrytion- just because your radios can't receive it doesn't make it encrypted.

Now I have a few dozen various ex Federal Government commercial radios I use for ham and other uses, and many of them have real DES, DES-XL and AES encrytion capabilities, all with real "push button" access. I simply don't use it on the ham bands. They are entireley appropriate for use on the ham bands- owning encrytion capabilities is not the devil.

Honestly, for better answers of P25 or Mototrbo or just about any technology newer than FM go to Batlabs or even Hamsexy, the forums there don't have a bunch of folks who kick and scream at the hint of any new technology they don;t understand.

 

Nice. We should experiment with anything we can get our hands one.

I'll join the group and follow your success and failures playing with this technology.

Chris

 

Glad you interested it's alot of fun

You are more than welcome to join....Enjoy!!!
W2JOE
Joe

 

Very well said Shane, thank you for helping

 

I think the real issue that is objected to is not the new technology, per se: it's new technology - that is (more or less) a monopoly, or is tied to one!

 

From the wiki containing the decoder:

"Compiling or using mbelib may infringe on patents rights and/or require licensing. It is unknown if DVSI will sell licenses for software that uses mbelib. If you do not have a license and are in a jurisdiction protected by the DVSI patents you should not compile or use this source code."​

That seems to wash ham experimentation up the proverbial creek.

Imagine if Samuel Morse retained these kind of property rights. His company could have charged a dime for every dit and two bits for every dash. We'd be cutting checks to AT&T every month, including paying a licensing fee for owning a keyer.

 

GREAT! Just what we all need.... A mototrbo repeater to link to when DSTAR has been accepted as the digital voice mode of choice on the ham bands. You guys really expect to have other mototrbo repeater systems to pop up across the country/world with DSTAR already as popular as it is? Good luck with that.

 

Well said!

And W2JOE - hope to talk to you again when I get back to NY. Keep down the fort, and say hi to the rest of the gang for me.

 

Well there are a few in germany and also I think about 5 or 6 in Cali and in NYC we are in the phase which more than 4 might be up... So u can sit back and watch .... D-star can't even come close to trbo.

 

Mototrbo repeater systems = American !! Support !!!

New Motorola system are more advanced than any Ham digital system out there much better built than D-Star radios .Motorola radios are far superior to anything out there in their class ..

But for me I accept any mode or system as long as it brings interest and more people coming into our hobby as we are a dyeing breed ..We must adjust to the new times and the technology that is available for us not to would be a sin.

To think different would be a waste and the ones who go down that path are they ones hurting our hobby and are narrow minded.

If you don't like it don't bash people for for trying to bring interest to our hobby as most likely you have no knowledge on what this vast system has to offer.And these operators have put forward $$$$ to get these systems up with no gain but for all of us to take part in this new and exciting digital system to enjoy

I am glad to see some Hams opening there tight pockets to buy a HT or Auto version as these radios do Anolog and Digital modes in one package and are better built than any Icom,Yeasu or Kenwood VHF and UHF radio out their..Thats $$$$ well spent !!!