SERA Wants All Repeaters Toned!

Dawg, what's your problem?

Listen carefully now, and give this concept time to sink in before you post more nonsense.  It may take awhile, PSE be patient.

SERA's job is to coordinate repeaters to PREVENT interference- not CREATE interference through improper coordination, then ask hams buy new rigs in order to fix the problem THEY CREATED!

SERA's job is to JUST SAY NO, no matter how much money they are offered, when a new repeater is likely to cause interference to existing repeaters.

If you cannot understand this, well...

But thanks for your support, anyway!

-WD4DUG

 

I really don't understand this question, after thinking about it. Who cares when the repeater drops carrier? And it would make no difference if that repeater had PL. Except for the fact that I could not access it from the mobile.

The mobile rig's repeat mode is basically transparent. In other words, if it were not for the label on the TH-42, you would think you were accessing the 2m repeater directly. The mobile goes into transmit mode whenever I key the 70cm rig, and repeats from 2m to 70cm when there is both a) a signal on 2m and b) no signal on 70cm.

Hard to think of any improvement on that, eh???

 

Let's lay one myth to rest, by the way. PL does NOT reduce or eliminate interference. It allows a user to select which repeater he/she wishes to key up, however, it does NOT eliminate interference on any other repeater that may be in range. If that repeater is keyed up, the interfering signal from our user above is still there. Therefore it is NOT a way to squeeze more repeaters into a given geographical area.

One of the most irritating systems I've used happened a number of years ago when I worked with a company that had commercial radios with PL, and shared a frequency with another company on another PL code. We did not hear the other user's conversations, but often when we would key up, we would be right there on top of an ongoing conversation of the other user. It was an irritant, but, having PL, we had no way of knowing whether the channel was busy or not. Conversely, they would often intrude on our conversations, not having heard us on frequency because of their own PL. I learned to hate PL during that time!! \

PL is NOT a cure-all, and should be used only when all other avenues have been exhausted. In no way should it be required on all systems, and it certainly does not allow repeaters to be located closer to each other. In most cases, the disadvantages outweigh the benefits.

 

On shared repeaters, the radios should have been configured to go to carrier squelch operation when the mic was taken off of the hangup. Almost all commercial radios do this as default behavior. The company should have also been given operating instructions on how it's employees are to use a shared repeater, such as monitoring before transmitting, etc.

At least I have some understanding as to why you find tone so troublesome.

 

That was a result from bad operating procedure. Any time in a commercial environment where you are on a community repeater or shared frequency, the proper procedure is to "monitor" the frequency first. In all cases, the microphone hang up box, or on more modern radios the hang up button has a switch in it that disabled the decoder when the mike is picked up. The user should listen for a few seconds to insure the frequency isn't in use. This isn't so much a problem now with trunked radios, but with the old community repeater, you may have up to 8 or 10 companies ON THE SAME REPEATER! Procedures were everything to efficient communications. The system actually worked pretty well when proper procedures were followed.

 

But those switches are not available on ham rigs, and, as you note, the interference is still there and must be accounted for in good operating practices. That being the case, there's no reason to put PL on it at all.

Again, requiring on all repeaters is simply not justified.

 

This is a long post. If you need to, feel free to delete or pass on to the next one. This is my first foray into QRZ internet discussion groups.

Folks, in the past few posts on this forum some potshots were aimed at someone who obviously matches my description. I don't want to drag this pi**ing contest out any further, but I do feel compelled to respond. I will (hopefully) make this my one and only posting.

Fist of all, I am no longer the TN SERA director. I resigned in January of this year because, quite frankly, my workload was preventing me from doing a decent job as coordinator. In retrospect, I should have appointed an assistant to help me with the East TN area, but I didn't, things started backing up, and complaints were made. Duly so. Therefore, I resigned. I still remain active within the organization as an Assistant. Under the SERA by-laws, I have no vote. I serve at the mercy of the present Tennessee Director. I was a coordinator from 1991 until this year.

Now, I would like to answer some of the allegations.

Yes, I have five two meter repeaters. No, I haven't used SERA to further my repeater ownership. My last two meter repeater (145.17) was purchased from KE4SK in 1991, the same year I started coordinating. There is paperwork to prove it. NOW HEAR THIS: I heard about its availabilty on the RACK club tech net (147.30) on a Monday Night, so it was advertised publicly as available. I called the guy, went to see it, tested it with my test equipment, and purchased the equipment. This process took several days. I filed the proper paperwork and coordinated it, just like all the others. Then I spent $2500 of my own money and completely replaced the spectrum or VHF engineering components (I forgot which) with a practically unused high band low split Micor station, which I traveled overnight with another ham to Virginia (Fredericksburg) to pick up. We broke down and wound up not getting back into East TN until 5 AM, but that's another story.

Before that, the last two meter repeater I placed on the air was in 1987, four years before I started coordinating. I coordinated it thru Tom Park. So, I have NOT used my position as coordinator to influence ANY of my personal repeater coordinations, PERIOD. I note with interest that one of the folks making this accusation WASN'T EVEN LICENSED IN 1991. How do *you* know what happened? My first repeater went on the air in September 1981. The last repeater I put on the air was a couple of years or so ago, and it was on 220. There is paperwork to prove this also. 'Nuff said.

I am opposed to requiring mandatory tone on repeaters. I have been asked about it on the air and made no secret about my opposition. However, I do not believe that seceeding from SERA is the answer. I can tell you that I raised Holy Hell at the Sunday meeting. I have been in touch with the now-Tennessee Director, the Secretary, and the President. Had the TN director been there, I believe he would have *voted* NO also. However, it would not have stopped the passing of this motion.

There are times when CTCSS (PL for Motorola types, CG for GE types), is appropriate to reduce repeaters being keyed up by intermod products, or the yo-yo who just has to run 100 watts to key up his cross-town repeater, or the traveler who is halfway between the two co-channel repeaters. but this decision should be made by the repeater owner himself, or be SUGGESTED/ENCOURAGED as part of a coordination. Tone can be assigned, and the option given to use or not to use as needs dictate. And yes, tone on encode mixed with an intermod product can still key up a repeater which was using the tone to try to mitigate the very same interference.

This is also the same reason that while I was coordinator I didn't want to see co-channels or adjacent channels shoe-horned in just because they met separations on paper. This probably made me despised by a few, but I have had co-channels stuck in on my fringe coverage areas too, and had to fight to get them off. Some problems happened anyway, but not because I willed or wanted them to. I tried to be fair, and even got a co-channel off the air of one of the fellows who has since bashed me. I recently opposed a coordination to a co-channel of one of the hams that thought I was asleep at the wheel.


The idea that I or any other coordinator has done this for money is absoloutely ridiculous. Before we e-mailed coordinations, I sure spent a lot on postage, and spent a lot on long distance before I had a nationwide cellphone or a place to call from that I didn't have to persoanlly pay for. That accusation is just plain silly.

Even if Tennessee secedes from SERA, there will still have to be an interface with SERA in surrounding states, as well as a from-the-ground startup with policies and proceedures to interface and operate. The SERA policies, with some flawed as they may be, didn't occur overnight. Nor should a second organization be formed by those who wanted something that SERA would not do due to interference, short spacing, conflicts with existing coordinations, policy, etc. This should not be a case of "They wouldn't play the game by my rules, I'll just take my red wagon and go elsewhere." Work to change what you don't like, as I am, but lets not throw the baby out with the bathwater. If any organization coordinates something that causes interference it will still have to be resolved thru the same proceedures as SERA already has in place.

Furthermore, as Johnny Wofford has already mentioned, there has already been an atempt by an individual to try to start another coordination group in West TN. It would up being litigated. I won't bore you with the details, but suffice it to say SERA survived, warts and all.

As to *my* technical background, I have been licensed for 31 years. I have owned and operated a repeater for 22 of those. I operate several high profile repeaters in East TN, and have poured THOUSANDS of dollars OF MY OWN money, time, blood, sweat, and tears into them. I will compare their on-air and service record to ANYONE'S, period. Bring it on. My repeater was keyed up for hours during the tornadoes that struck Morgan County, and is keyed up for long periods of time now with Weather Nets, events, and just plain old rag chewing. It has nothing to do with whether it is toned or not. I am fortunate that three (soon to be four) of my repeaters live at sites where there is emergency power available. And the generators have proudly kept them on when things got rough.

With the exception of the 220, which has a PA chip out, they are all on the air and working. I am considering re-building 220 based on a conversation with a fellow ham in Virginia who shared his knowledge and experience with me.

I am not fond of the money and time it will take to convert all of my repeaters to tone. Only one of them has a controller on it, and it was bought ($700) for the autopatch. Again, from my own funds. The others can be retrofitted with tone boards of the appropriate brand ( I have Micors and Mastr II's), but the time involved will not be small. And unless I ante up for controllers on all of the others (no, I don't expect the amateur public to read a CW ID with the tone frequency in it) to announce the tone frequency, then the statement that says travelers will be disadvantaged is exactly correct.

I am opposed to mandatory tone for all of these reasons, listed here by other posters. I do, however, see its merits for the same reasons listed by other posters. It (tone squelch) *can* reduce the amount of co-channel interference caused by poor operating practices by users, or by faulty equipment. My opposition is not just based on the policy itself, but also the manner in which it was passed. Coordination and its policies cannot always be done by opinion polls, but there certainly needs to be input from repeater owners (of which I am one) as to the merits and faults of such a major shift in policy. I know that's why a lot of repeater owners and trustees are upset.

Which brings me to the accusation that I have not responded to any of this. Folks, I work for a living. I take care of SIX radio stations full time, one part time, and am in the middle of running a Sports Network from the technical side. I don't have time to go add tone boards, get on here and defend myself or my position, or even coordinate, hence my resignation mentioned earlier. I don't get to talk much on my repeaters anymore :-(

While I was coordinator, I may not been the fastest person to respond to difficult coordination requests ("why can't I have a new two meter repeater pair on this xxxx ft Mountain???" ) but one thing for sure, I did NOT have a coordination blow up on me for some of the very reasons listed in here. I did not casually short space repeaters, rather when I thought one was even feasible I obtained signed waivers from BOTH parties stating what the terms of short spacing were and who was responsible for what. This method worked rather well and was copied to other coordinations in fellow SERA states. Was I perfect? No, I wasn't. But I tried my best to do the best job possible in this VOLUNTEER position. Which brings me to the next point.

NO ONE is getting PAID in SERA to coordinate. Period. SERA funds have been expended to pay for PART TIME clerical help to attempt to manage an ever-growing database so that we (them) VOLUNTEERS can do our jobs right. Yes, there are two meetings in Pigeon Forge every year. That location was chosen as a central point for staff in all extremes to be able to travel to AT THEIR OWN EXPENSE. I never once asked to stay overnight in PF, rather I stayed in my own home about 45 minutes away. Yes, the rooms are paid for, as well as meals DURING THE TIME FRAME OF THE MEETINGS. By the way, the meetings are open. They are publicized in the Journal and on the website. Lets hope that one is put to rest.

My repeaters, all of them, are used daily by Weather Nets, ARES nets, training nets, community service groups (bike runs,etc), and the general public free of charge. I am damn proud of them. It has been since the 1980's that I have asked someone to leave my repeater and not return. Some of my accusers here have enjoyed using my repeaters also, then get on the internet and bash me. Interesting. There is only one person who has sent a donation to the repeater fund this year, and I never even hear him on. So, I guess I didn't solicit his money either. Also interesting. I do not get on the air and "panhandle." I do upgrades/repairs/replacements as time and budget allows.

Now, I know this post will open up a firestorm of comments, and I am sure I will get bashed some more from both sides. But I thought it was appropriate to tell the truth about some of the false accusations, regardless of my opinions pro or con about the SERA's CTCSS policy.

I choose not to run tone. I am a "big boy," and I know the risks. I don't want my repeaters, one of which has been on SINCE 1969, to be suddenly uncoordinated by mandate or by default when I don't tone it up. I know tone is only a filter to mute signals in my receiver's front end, and I know that by leaving it open I am going to hear the 100 watt home station in Bowling Green Kentucky call their net on .94 every weeknight, band opening or not. I will still get zapped by band openings, I will still have my receiver front end desensitized by the 500+ watt paging transmitter that I have repeatedly asked the owner of same to fix it! Tone will not help that problem.

I know what it costs also, I pay the bills. I know what I said at the Sunday meeting, and I know my technical background as sound in making the observations that I did. I know what good things tone squelch will do as well. It should be an OPTION. I own and maintain two way land mobile equipment, and this particular analogy to the business radio world ain't the same thing.

If you are still reading this, thank you for your time. I may feel bad about this tomorrow, but at 1:45 AM tonight, I feel better.

73 de Tim Berry WB4GBI
SERA TN has-been
Proud owner of 145.17, 145.47, 146.625, 146.94, 147.075, 224.34 and 444.300
FCC GROL license holder since it was a "1st Phone" in 1978

 

Tim, I am in South Carolina, not Tennessee, but may have used one of your repeaters in my many travels. (I lived in Tennessee 1983-88.)Regardless, I'm on your side. Yours is the best reasoned and best thought out post on here.

I agree 100% and wish you good fortune in the future. We need more like you.

Listen to him, people. His is the best argument on here, far better than mine.

 

Tim Berry, wb4gbi of Knoxville, Tn has been a friend for many years and I respect him and his view as he is ranked with the best as far as repeater operations and knowledge thereof. Knoxville and the surrounding area should also be as I am sure they are, be supportive of him as he has been providing repeater service for them to use for many years, as I have for almost 25 years and I know where he comes from on that. While Tim, the former sera director for Tennessee has served many years and coordinated at least two repeaters for me. We do agree on the purpose for this discussion group. I think that repeater operators should make the choice how to operate their equipment.
As the founder of "ARSET" Amateur Repeater Society of East Tennessee, I have asked Tim to join our cause. I have clarified the purpose of this group on the ARSET website. It is very simple: Choice be given to the repeater operator how he operates it and further to have a group input into coordination processes, whether a member or not. 97% of the upper East Tennessee repeaters operators agree with this.

Sam, wm4t
ARSET

 

Although the discussion may have went dead here, ARSET is still involved in trying to remove the mandatory tone policy passed by SERA. Sadly to say, the leadership of SERA seems to be deaf when it comes to what a majority of repeater owners and trustees are saying.

 

Latest news on this issue coming soon. Tennessee SERA State Director speaks out. Check out Latest SERA news

Sam, wm4t
ARSET

 

This email came to me from Andy Masters, NU5O, SERA Tennessee director. He advised for me to copy and paste it in it's entirety.

Sam, wm4t
ARSET

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Hello. My name is Andy Masters, NU5O, and I serve as the Tennessee Director
for SERA. I have been a ham since 1966, helped put the first repeater on in
Jackson, TN back in the 1970's and at one time was the driving force behind
the VOLNET-a group of 10 repeaters linked full time over a wide area.
Currently, I maintain 3 UHF repeaters in Memphis, including one that has 4
voting receivers. I also assist small groups in planning, tuning, and
installing their new repeaters.

I have been asked by a great number of TN repeater owners to comment on the
mandatory tone policy that SERA has implemented and I have chosen to do so
through Sam, WM4T. I don't always agree with Sam's view on things but I
always know where I stand with him and I hear his views directly-not from
some other direction. For that reason, I respect him and appreciate him.

The short version is that I am against a mandatory tone policy for two
meters and I will not support it or enforce it except when the repeaters are
short spaced and/or a clear operational advantage is gained by using tone.
An example of that would be a new repeater in a mountainous area. Users
often hear other co-channel repeaters well over a hundred miles away but the
signal is so weak it just breaks the squelch. By using tone, the group(s)
have an opportunity to use CTCSS and get rid of the annoyance. It's not
interference per se-but it is an annoyance. Several of you in East TN have
written to me since this issue came up and have stated that is why you like
tone.

Having said that, I want also to state clearly that the discussions that
brought about this decision at the June SERA board meeting were based
entirely on user complaints and a desire to help get more repeaters on the
air. There was NEVER an attitude of "let's shove it down their throats" at
the meeting. In fact just the opposite was the case. Since 9/11 there has
been a great demand on the spectrum (especially 2 meters) for new repeaters.
Most of those requests are coming from rural areas where hams want to
install an emergency powered repeater to be able to respond to a crisis in
their area. Is that a bad thing?

It is obvious that SERA did not handle the announcement of the decision well
nor did it handle the outcry of repeater owners properly. I and others did
try to reverse the decision but as of this writing it has not changed. While
a few of our board members seemingly do not care whether members comment or
not others do in fact care. You will have decide where your own directors
stand and act accordingly.

Interestingly, SERA already requires the use of tone on 10 meter and UHF
repeaters (CP&G Policy 14G...). To my knowledge not a single ham has ever
complained about this policy. It seems the real issue is that the
coordinating body made a decision that significantly affects the membership
without first asking for input from the membership and that is the key
issue. Some of the directors are ok with that but I am not. I do apologize
to the repeater owners of Tennessee for our decision to make this policy
mandatory without seeking input first. I did suggest to the board as a
result that SERA change its by-laws to require two meetings to change a
policy that seriously affects repeater owners in order to allow a comment
period but it was voted down.

It would seem there are at least three options left to repeater owners and
users:

1. Do not renew your membership in SERA until the policy changes.
2. Renew your membership in SERA, read carefully the by-laws section of SERA
on the website and pursue the election of individuals that will represent
your views. Bear in mind that several states have had almost no complaints
about this new policy in the SERA group.
3. Renew your membership and maintain the status quo.

Personally, I choose to remain a member of SERA and to continue to try and
persuade the organization to be more responsive to its members feelings. It
still remains the best coordinating body in the USA. All of the member
states that surround Tennessee take each new coordination seriously-using
our new ComSoft software to determine the actual coverage of a repeater and
whether or not it will work. We have successfully placed a number of
repeaters on the air with minimal issues as a result. We have denied far
more as a result of the software because we could prove in advance that
serious issues would arise as a result of the coordination.

We are not perfect. Many of our detractors however would soon find
themselves unhappy in any coordinating body. Unbelievably, some of these
people think that they can own a repeater frequency for eternity and it will
always be their's even if it has been off the air for several years. Others
will move their repeater many miles and just plop it down wherever they want
thinking that location has nothing to do with coordination. While those
groups are highly verbal in situations like this and do a lot to muddy the
water-I believe most repeater owners would soon find them to be unwelcome
guests in any coordinating body.

I did propose changes to the CP&G in the June meeting that were also
approved that will allow us to go after paper, dormant, and un-coordinated
repeaters. These repeaters are keeping good ham operators from putting
repeaters on the air in their area and they know it. If you are aware of a
repeater in this category in Tennessee, I want to know about it.

Below is an excerpt from the letter that will go out to all TN repeater
owners this fall from SERA. The data sheets are critical to the
coordination process. PLEASE PARTICIPATE! You don't have to join SERA to
send in your data sheet but please send in the data sheet so we can have an
accurate census of repeaters.

Again, I do sincerely apologize to the amateurs of Tennessee for the
implementation of the tone policy without first seeking input and gaining a
better perspective on the issue.


Sincerely,


Andy Masters NU5O
TN Director SERA

SERA DATA SHEET LETTER FALL 2004:

Greetings fellow Tennessee repeater owners from your SERA State Director. A
lot has happened this year in the State of Tennessee with repeaters and with
SERA.

Let me introduce you to the SERA coordinators for the state. First, in East
Tennessee, is David Fridley, KG4FZR, as a new Coordinator and Assistant
Director. David owns a tower company and is well versed in communications
and ham radio. Next, in Middle Tennessee, is Jerome Buie, KB4POA, who also
serves as Coordinator and our Vice Director for the state. Jerome is in
traffic control communications and has a truck that looks like Fibber
McGee's closet (it's full of stuff). Last, in West Tennessee, is Alan
McClain, KA4BNI, who works in communications for the state and serves as a
new Coordinator and Assistant Director. Tim Berry, WB4GBI, resigned from
his post as State Director in January due to extreme business obligations.
He is one of those guys who works 80 hours a week. I agreed to be State
Director only if he would remain as an Assistant Director-which he has
agreed to do. Tim now serves as a Technical Assistant Director and we are
very fortunate to benefit from his experience. You may review the
biographies of each of these fine gentlemen at: www.sera.org

The events of 9/11 have put a great pressure on our state and those
surrounding us in terms of demand for new repeaters. This demand has
driven several decisions by SERA to help alleviate some of the pressure.
Some of the decisions are welcomed and some are not. First, at the June
board meeting this year, I made several proposals to change the CP&G of SERA
to make it easier to de-coordinate repeaters. There are a significant number
of "paper" repeaters in Tennessee. We have people who actually think a
repeater can be off the air for 20 years and somehow they have a right to
that frequency. Some people think they can move a repeater 20 miles or more
from its current location without re-coordinating it first. For those of
you sitting on paper repeaters and uncoordinated repeaters-we are coming
after you. Every month I receive requests from rural groups in Tennessee
wanting a repeater frequency. Currently, there are no 2 meter pairs
available in state. These groups are angry because they know of paper,
dormant, or uncoordinated repeaters in their areas that are keeping them
from a legitimate frequency pair.
As State Director, I believe it is my responsibility to serve the person
seeking a new repeater for his area and not the guy who refuses to
participate in the coordination process, never put the repeater on the air,
or failed to maintain his repeater and never put it back on the air. This
is a no brainer. I am going to help the new group every time. It is a fair
and consistent policy and it better serves the needs of our amateur
community.

Tones. At the June Board Meeting, SERA adopted a new mandatory tone policy.
I don't like it and I will not enforce it. The policy was adopted in an
effort to address complaints from several users over interference issues.
It was NOT an attempt to shove anything down the member's throat. However,
it was poorly handled, done without consulting the membership for comments,
and generally will cause hardship and expense to a lot of repeater owners.
I do agree that short spaced repeaters and certain other co-channel
repeaters should be required to have tone-but not all repeaters. I will
continue to insist we use tones under the previous guidelines set forth in
the CP&G.

I am not happy about the way the board has chosen to respond to the issue of
soliciting input from the users and making decisions that significantly
affect our members. I have voiced those complaints to the board as many of
you have. I encourage you to continue to voice your thoughts. SERA does
not have a right to autocratically do things to the amateur community
without input from the same. It is supposed to be our organization and when
you agree or disagree with policies-you should let somebody know. Many of
you have told me that you will not be joining SERA again until this way of
doing business changes. I can't blame you and I understand your feelings.

Regardless of whether you choose to join SERA or renew your membership, I do
ask that each repeater owner fill in the data sheets and return them. Good
data is the only way we can do a proper job of coordinating. If you have
any changes you need to make on the data sheets and you have questions-do
not hesitate to write me at: nu5o@sera.org

If you know of repeaters off the air, paper repeaters, uncoordinated
repeaters, please write me with the details. Recovering these frequencies
means some rural group will be able to put their repeater on the air. It is
the right thing to do. If you have a repeater that is no longer on the
air-talk to me. I will work with you if you need some time to get it on the
air but I also encourage you to consider turning it back in to the pool and
saving us a lot of trouble de-coordinating your repeater.

A word about service. All of our coordinators are good people. They are
also busy people. They do this work voluntarily. They are not paid a penny
for their time. However, if you are not getting timely service, I want to
know about it. I promise you, I will address your issues regardless of
whether you are a member of SERA or not.

73 de Andy Masters NU5O
TN Director SERA

 

Does anyone know why the latest thread on this subject was locked down? It seemed that there was an interesting debate going on there but I guess someone angered somebody.

My take is that tones are a hassle and a real impossibility for anyone who uses older equipment. While tone encode might be available in a lot of radios, as someone else mentioned, you need to know the tone in order to encode it.

Flipping through the tones in decode mode is also a hassle and dangerous while driving. Going on a trip? Toning up for repeaters published in an out of date directory or even info on the web is sometimes and exercise in frustration as the tones do change.

The only way this will change is when you can put your radio on scan, have it scan all normally used splits, detect the tone, and have it automatically programmed and stored in memory for use. However, as you travel, you will need to do this everytime you leave one area for another.

In reading this (and the other) thread there is another issue that seems ominous. If some repeater owners choose to run their repeater without PL, will SERA, in response (or) retaliation, just coordinate another repeater with PL on the same pair and force the first to shut down?

Lots of interesting stuff here.

73
George
K3UD

 

To George, k3ud, and others!

The topic was to post Andy Masters, NU5O, Tennessee's SERA director's position which was posted here also and take a few comments. I posted it for him and I felt the thread was going off-topic and so I ended it.

This topic is posted by another person and he feels it should continue, fell free to make reference to the other topic. But the point that folks posting here keep getting away from what the real issue is and What Andy was saying was to allow more input from repeater owners, let them have a voice in decisions, tone access is not the issue, but the subject of this debate, it's all about choice if a repeater operator to operate to the best of his knowledge his repeater, let the coordinator do his job by coordinating a frequency pair and that is where he ends, he has no enforcement power only recommending to the FCC, which is exactly what the ARSET group has an equal right to do too. If the FCC sees fit to step in afterwards, so be it. Andy's comments speak for themselves.

But on the ARSET website, under SERA news he has made a very strong statement how he feels. Please go to it and read.

Sam, wm4t
ARSET