RepeaterLink.org

Why dont you guys try using www.artscipub.com/repeaters/dsprpts.asp National Repeater Directory
This is free and it has more information than the Repeaterlink.org site.
Echolink and E-QSO are very usefull tools. I will use whatever means necessary to make a sucessful qso's. I do, however, use HF & VHF without the aid of a computer and have made several qso's utilizing each method. Old salts may not like change but those of us who have witnessed the computer/radio interfaces come of age support it as a viable part of the hobby.
Echolink was used to assist in the recovery of the Space Shuttle Columbia, and in times of emergency can be used to link EOC's with field operators who may be out of range. VOIP will be arround for a long time so get used to it!
Mark KD5SMF

 

Charles,
I think that some of the things that you have mentioned about interent linked repeaters mya be true, but they are not the threat, or problem. The problem is assholes. Assholes thrive in every location and activity known to man. They can ruin even the best of things. Assholes are known to spare no expense to make sure that no body can have a good time. They could just as easily and actually do a better job of bringing our hobby down with a radio that costs 129 bucks from hro, rather than a computer that costs plenty more. It is exceedingly difficult to track a moving signal, not impossible, but difficult. Off topic, nice bike.
Wesley

 

Charles,
I think that some of the things that you have mentioned about interent linked repeaters mya be true, but they are not the threat, or problem. The problem is assholes. Assholes thrive in every location and activity known to man. They can ruin even the best of things. Assholes are known to spare no expense to make sure that no body can have a good time. They could just as easily and actually do a better job of bringing our hobby down with a radio that costs 129 bucks from hro, rather than a computer that costs plenty more. It is exceedingly difficult to track a moving signal, not impossible, but difficult. Off topic, nice bike.
Wesley

 

Sorry, I've been tied up with a project the last day or so!

I see that the "Amateur Telephone" advocates have come out of the woodwork, as can be expected, to whine about how difficult and limited Radio is, and how using the Internet as a substitute for knowlegable use of Radio is a big step forward for the hobby. - The Ham RADIO hobby!

Since I have suggested that Ham Radio operators use Radio, that means of course that I am a hopeless luddite, a semi-neandertal whose knuckles drag the ground because he is stuck on the idea of outdated old RADIO.  Tsk tisk.... What a shame... A Ham advocating the use of Radio! What next?

The "Amateur Telephone' types can blow smoke out of their shorts until the cows come home though, and none of it will change the facts.

Fact is, the Internet linked systems ARE particularly vulnerable to Ham identity theft, and DO leave a wide-open enforcement gap that did not exist before.

Also, it is NOT Ham Radio, significantly undercuts the liscensing and upgrade system, and discourages Hams from buying and using Radios, along with other Ham equipment.

None of these effects are good for the hobby, no matter how you spin them.

This might give us a good clue as to why the FCC is more than a little dubious about Internet linked repeaters. - Who can blame them?

One of the "Amateur Telephone" apologists here was actually dopey enough to put forward the fact that Internet Linked repeaters tend to get Hams off the air as an advantage.

That's the kind of thinking that will lose us our spectrum. - Wouldn't it be a lot better for the hobby to just lose the "Amateur Telephone" clowns instead?

Charles,  N5PVL

 

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
I see that the "Amateur Telephone" advocates have come out of the woodwork, as can be expected, to whine about how difficult and limited Radio is, and how using the Internet as a substitute for knowlegable use of Radio is a big step forward for the hobby. - The Ham RADIO hobby!
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
We're not whining about how hard Ham Radio is, you are whining about how easy internet linking is. You seem (from your homepage) to be a pretty intelligent guy. Why do you feel the need to lable people who disagree with you?

Why also do you feel that someone is incapable of knowing BOTH RF and other linking methods? It is not a one vs the other relationship. People can and do learn both, and they both have their advantages and disadvantages. Just like microwave vs HF. There's nothing to be afraid of!

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Since I have suggested that Ham Radio operators use Radio, that means of course that I am a hopeless luddite, a semi-neandertal whose knuckles drag the ground because he is stuck on the idea of outdated old RADIO. Tsk tisk.... What a shame... A Ham advocating the use of Radio! What next?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

I mentioned IRLP, as an example of internet linking where all hams involved use radio. You haven't addressed it, so does that mean you are no longer anti-IRLP?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The "Amateur Telephone' types can blow smoke out of their shorts until the cows come home though, and none of it will change the facts.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Am I what you would consider a "Amateur Telephone" type? Just trying to keep my labels straight.
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Fact is, the Internet linked systems ARE particularly vulnerable to Ham identity theft, and DO leave a wide-open enforcement gap that did not exist before. [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I asked you to provide an example of ONE vulnerability in an IRLP internet linked connection that is not possible in an RF connection. Of course this is a trick question, since IRLP has RF at both ends - so any misuse at all occurs on RF. But hey, if this is a "fact" as you suggest, you should be able to come up with one.
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Also, it is NOT Ham Radio, significantly undercuts the liscensing and upgrade system, and discourages Hams from buying and using Radios, along with other Ham equipment.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Repeating your statements do not make them true! IRLP is pretty darn neat, but I still bought my ICOM 706. I have never met any ham whose decision on buying an HF rig was based on Internet linking being available.
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">None of these effects are good for the hobby, no matter how you spin them.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Then you could respond to my points rather than restating your objections.
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">This might give us a good clue as to why the FCC is more than a little dubious about Internet linked repeaters. - Who can blame them? [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
There are a lot of things the FCC is dubious about. The rules are fairly clear, however, even if not universally followed. Same with RF.
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">One of the "Amateur Telephone" apologists here was actually dopey enough to put forward the fact that Internet Linked repeaters tend to get Hams off the air as an advantage.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Now I'm dopey. Look, this is not calculus. If you want to develop CW skills, get an HF rig. If you want to connect reliably long distances with ham radio under most any conditions, choose internet linking.

Saying that people can only choose ONE or the OTHER - that they will use HF or will forgo HF for internet linking makes no sense! Might as well lament the sales of TVs, since books are available. (or vice versa&#33

Books & TVs do different things, but are both entertainment.

Internet linking & HF do different things, but are both communication tools.

I know you are smart enough to understand this.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">That's the kind of thinking that will lose us our spectrum. - Wouldn't it be a lot better for the hobby to just lose the "Amateur Telephone" clowns instead?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

People should trust your opinion, why? You haven't demonstrated a lot of knowledge about internet linking!

I say people should research it, maybe even try it, then decide for themselves if it is something they want to do.
I also say people who have not done the above, are certainly unqualified to make any judgements about it.

I think everyone here (regardless of their position on this) knows who is clowning around.

If you want people to take you seriously, consider treating people with respect, and ditch the name-calling. This is not kindergarten.

 

It's true that EchoLink is not really radio... the magic just isn't there for me either, even though it can be fun.  And it is certainly susceptible to any problems along the way, such as power outages, etc, and may not be reliable in an emergency.  But it is useful, just like any other technological advancement.  For example, I know of cases where old hams have had to move to retirement homes and so they can no longer put up antennas; should they also be forced to give up their hobby because of this?  EchoLink provides many of these folks an opportunity to continue to make world-wide contacts that they otherwise would not have, and that's fantastic!  I also heard about a ham that got temporarily transferred away in her job for a year or so, but she can stay in touch with friends and husband on the repeater back home via EchoLink from her hotel room.  Great way to help with the home-sickness too, don't you think?

Do you ever use a phone patch?  Well, it's not really radio; it's dependent on the phone system, and the person on the phone is often not a licensed ham.  Should we do away with autopatches?

When you work satellites or use repeaters, these are other man-made means of enhancing range and overcoming the limits of natural propagation, just like EchoLink is.  And many repeaters are also vulnerable to power and phone outages.  Should we get rid of these as well?

If you've bought a new rig in the past couple of decades, then you know that chip integration has now allowed 12 bands to come in a single box.  This is an incredible achievement.  And DSP technology has enabled even the weakest of signals to get through, whereas previously they would have been down in the mud and hopelessly unintelligible.  Since these are completely dependent on technological developments, does this mean we should reject their use?

Technological advances are the result of experimentation. And experimentation is what Amateur Radio is all about!

It's good to be on guard, and you certainly raise some valid concerns, especially in regard to unlicensed operators and potential loss of spectrum.  I've been a ham for over 20 years, and I do in fact share many of your same concerns.  But to be so totally closed-minded... perhaps you would prefer to still be using only spark CW?