RepeaterLink.org

A while back, I post an article about RepeaterLink.org when it was first born. Well I would just like to repost this article because, RepeaterLink.org now has a much larger database of repeater systems and many new features that it didn't have when it first came out. Now with the database of entered repeaters and new features this site has become very useful to the HAM radio community. And one note for those of you that tried to visit my site before with older browsers and couldn't. I have fixed that problem too. All, with any browser should be able to visit the site. Listed below is a list of features this site now has.

http://www.repeaterlink.org

* Search for Repeater Systems within and around a city.
* Search for Repeater Systems the connect 2 different cities together.
* Search for Repeater Systems via Callsign
* Easy access to add and maintain your Repeater Systems.
* Printer friendly Repeater System Lists
* Automatically generated HTML code so you can link to your system on repeaterlink.org from your homepage.
* Automatically generated map of the Repeater System.
* Upload images of your tower/repeater.
* Discussion forums to talk about different thing related to repeater systems
* Link to your Repeater System's homepage.
* Send messages to the maintainers of the repeater systems.
* Add notes to your Repeater Systems
* Add notes to each Repeater in your System.
* Unlimited amount of repeaters and repeater systems
* FCC Callsign database lookup.
* And best of all, the service is completely FREE.

 

Not a bad idea!  Thanks to your work in listing the repeaters that have screwed themselves up with Internet linking systems, Hams who want to enjoy Amateur Radio can look these non-ham "repeaters" up on your pages and avoid using, funding, or participating in them.

Many Hams have become outraged because time and/or money they donated to a repeater system ended up going to an Internet/Ham Radio hack instead. The new page will give Amateurs a place to check before they donate any of their time or money.

We have a few Internet "linked" repeater systems here in my area...

Before the Internet link, when we heard an unfamiliar call on the repeaters, we knew it was a new Ham from out of town, visiting our area and special hospitality was in order. Now, of course, more often than not it will be some jerk across the country who may or may not even be a Ham, playing with his Internet software, making beeping tones and scratchy, popping QRM noises. As often as not, if you bother to come back to them, they are not there. They don't want to talk; They just want to play with the software. Now nobody here really bothers when they hear a strange call. - This is part of how Internet Linking takes away the best part of using a repeater.

Before the Internet link, a local Ham had been struggling to get his morse code so that he could upgrade his ticket to the general class. He was looking at HF rigs, excited about taking the exam. - Then the linked repeater system came online and - You guessed it! - He found he could "QSO" with distant Hams without having to bother to learn anything, buy anything, or take any exams. He was about a week or so from getting taking the examination for the code, and dropped his effort entirely when the linked repeater system came online. From what I understand, this is a common reaction to a new Internet linked repeater setup. A lot of Hams use it as an excuse not to upgrade or learn anything more about radio. - This is part of how Internet Linking takes away the best part of using a repeater.

Before the Internet link, I used to run an "upgrade net" on the repeater every week-night. I would send 7-8 minutes of 5wpm (Farnsworth) morse code, then read back the text sent, so that listeners could grade themselves. An informal net would follow. This "upgrade net" was working out well as a low-pressure way for upgrading Hams to get in a little practice every day, but it had to be shut down after the Internet link was introduced. I had permission from the local repeater owner to transmit the CW stuff over his repeater, but I did not have permission to transmit it on any of the dozens of other random repeaters that the Internet link introduced into the picture. - This is part of how Internet linking takes away the best part of using a repeater.

The other day I was visiting a Ham who was participating in a net over EchoLink. He was using the computer, even though his radio was very capable on the repeater. I asked him, "Why not use the radio?" and he answered that the radio was not as good because the computer software and Internet link had more features. Earlier I talked about a Ham giving up his plan to buy an HF rig... I would not be surprised to discover that a lot of VHF and UHF radios are not being bought now, either.

Putting out all of that information about Internet-linked Ham Radio repeaters will be useful to guys like me, who see the damage to the hobby and wouldn't touch it with a ten-foot pole, and it will also be useful to guys on the other end of the "do I care?" spectrum, who want to get on the ham bands, but were previously held back by [A] No Ham Ticket, FCC and Ham radio-direction finding equipment , and [C] No Ham Radio Equipment of their own... Now that and [C] have been eliminated as checks against their behavior, we can expect to see an influx of "hackers" in the Internet linked systems. The friendly fellow you are talking to may, or may not be a ham, because [A] does not hold these people back, as evidenced by the way CB degenerated after coming to the (enforcement) point these Internet linked repeaters are now approaching.

"Free-banders" and "pirate" types will absolutely ADORE your page, you can count on that! Some Hams may think it is good, and some Hams may think it is bad, but you can count on each and every one of the scumbag "hacker" and "freebander" types to be universal in their enthusiasm for the information you offer on your page. I see where the page even offers information useful for coming up with a bogus "callsign" that would pass muster, including the proper database info to back your bogus callsign up... Theft of a Ham operator's identity has never been easier!

If I were to say that I intended to publish the address of your page on newsgroups and lists frequented by "freebanders", the suggestion would outrage and anger any responsible, intelligent Ham. - And it would do so because he would instantly understand the danger to the hobby that I am talking about. The good news is that I would never do such a thing; The bad news is that somebody else inevitably will.

 I think that you understand the danger to the hobby that Internet-linked repeaters and your page present to the Ham Radio community - but you just don't care.

Charles,  N5PVL

 

I don't often post on here, but I feel like I almost have to. Earlier this year, I recieved my Tech license, then a month later, I upgraded to general. I know what people have to do for the code, and I admit it is easy if you put a little work into it.
The problem I found with your reply, Charles, was that it only focused on the negative things. A linked repeater system can be a very good thing. For college students and other people of limited income, a linked repeater system allows someone to communicate with somebody out of VHF/UHF range with your VHF/UHF equipment, while you save up to buy yourself a nice HF rig and antenna setup.
However, I do understand your opinion that Internet systems may have a negative effect on Tech's upgrading to general or Extra. And as for the "pirates," well, there isn't much we can do, as unfortunate as it is.
Kudos to you, KC9BIW, for putting in this effort.

Jason
KB3IYN

 

Thanks for putting your site together.  As a fairly new operator, and not much extra money to put into this great new hobby, I enjoy being able to have a site that will allow me to accress a repeater close to my home (with my 5 watt hand held) and be able to talk to someone accross the state on the 2 meter band.

Again, thanks for putting up your site.

KC0MVF  

 

I've been a ham for about 34 years. I've seen a lot of modes come along. Some have lasted, and some have not. I tend to agree with Charles on this one. The hobby is called 'HAM RADIO'. The operative here is RADIO. It has always been the intent of Ham Radio to communicate via radio from point to point, with the motivation to higher licenses being the ability to communicate farther.

I see absolutely no reason to include computers in the link just to be able to communicate farther. ICQ, Microsoft Messenger and other computer VOIP chat programs provide the same exact service as repeater links.

Internet will be just like phone service in an emergency, gone. Communication will rely on Ham Radio at least for a while. That's one of the main reasons for the Ham Radio hobby. Not beating phone charges. You can do that easily with VOIP.

Cheers,

Rick Curtis
WA6JKH

 

Why not just go to a "Chat Room"; or send email?

 

Just to let you know, your GENERAL statement was VERY IGNORANT, the first set of repeaters I looked up happened to be ours, which happen to be linked TOTALY BY RF! NO INTERNET WHAT SO EVER!

WHAT A TROLL, SHEESH!

Think before you speak!

Chris Hood
WB4ULK

 

Nice presented, easy to use data base..
I added my repeater. It was very easy to do.
Thank you. Dan. kb7uxe.

 

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (WB4ULK @ April 21 2003,02<!--emo&)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Just to let you know, your GENERAL statement was VERY IGNORANT, the first set of repeaters I looked up happened to be ours, which happen to be linked TOTALY BY RF! NO INTERNET WHAT SO EVER!
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

We have RF-linked repeaters in my area too, but if you will re-read my post, you will discover that I was talking about Internet-linked repeaters [IRLP, EchoLink] and never mentioned RF-linked repeaters at all.

Of course RF-linked repeaters do not present the same kind of problems to the Ham community that Internet linked ones do. The RF-linked repeaters use Ham Radio.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (WB4ULK @ April 21 2003,02<!--emo&)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
WHAT A TROLL, SHEESH!

Think before you speak!

Chris Hood
WB4ULK[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

I think this is more of a case of you drifting off-topic than of me being a TROLL... I made a legitimate comment of a constructive nature, in that I pointed out a problem with a new non-ham, non-radio mode of communication that many Hams are using in an irresponsible fashion, thereby bringing harm to the hobby and their fellow Hams.

Having a special web-site that lists the Internet-linked repeaters, alongside handy info for anybody wanting to come up with a bogus callsign will inevitably lead to the kind of abuse I outlined in my post. Sorry, but that's just how it is.

The fact that RF-linked repeaters are on that site too will not stop scumbag "freebanders" and "hacker" wannabees from abusing the Internet-Linked ones listed there.

If there was a "point" to your abusive, nasty post, I suppose it would have to be that since you have an RF-linked system at the web-site, that means you think that the Internet-linked ones there will magically be incapable of creating the problems for the Ham Radio Community that I outlined.

 Now, THAT is what I call "Ignorant"!  

Try to stay on-topic, Chris!  Take it easy, and don't be in such a big rush to get hot under the collar.

Most misunderstandings like this can be easily avoided by careful reading of any post you may intend to respond to... Attacking people over matters not even associated to their posts is bad form.

Do you have any relevant comments about what I actually said in my post? It's not too late to take a stab at it, if you'd like to try.

Charles,  N5PVL

 

Internet Voice Gateways- Internet Radio Linking Project

There are now over 2000 World-wide Ham radio Repeater and Simplex Internet
Voice Gateways.

Please remind radio hams to take their handhelds with them when travelling
aboard as many cities around the world now have their VHF and UHF repeaters
and some VHF/UHF simplex radio channels linked to Internet Voice Gateways.

This makes it possible for hams to keep in touch with ham friends in other
cities by using the local Internet Voice Gateway in the city they are
visiting.

Internet Voice Gateways on repeaters or simplex channels also come in useful
when there is no H.F. propagation so friends can keep in touch across the
word.

Other uses might be setting up QRP contacts H.F. skeds SSTV etc I have used
them to give talks to radio cubs in different countries and clubs around the
U.K.

There are three separate linking systems Irlp Echolink and eQSO.


For and a list of cities and countries where the links are available and for
further information please email me or visit my web site.


73 Ian G3ZHI



--
http://www.qsl.net/g3zhi - many ham radio links

United Kingdom Internet Radio Linking Project

http://www.ukirlp.co.uk http://www.irlp.co.uk http://www.irlp.net

I usually monitor G4NJI node 5200 simplex 145.2875mhz and GB3DV node 5130
repeater 433.025mhz

Ian Abel G3ZHI
52 Hollytree Ave
Maltby
Rotherham
Yorkshire
S66 8DY

Tel: 01709 799911
Mobile 0776 481 3363

 

I talk on a huge linked repeater system here in Michigan, we have one of the biggest systems around, and I love it as do the few other hundred people who use it on a daily basis. We have just added echolink to our hub repeater, now we can have a chat with Hams the have moved away to other states and speak to new hams we cant reach by other means. As for it ruining the hobby/addiction of ham radio, never. I thought Ham radio was about growing, learning new things. if you don't face technology, in time, it will pass you by and when you need it, you wont know how to use it. I look foward to using packet and APRS. What will it take? The will to learn and grow. EchoLink is just another way to take this hobby to the next level.

Also, internet linked systems can bring foward new ideas and answers to problems. What one ham knows in Texas can now have a greater chance of making it to a ham in New York.

So if your ever on EchoLink and feel like chatting, connect to the N8OBU(444.575) repeater, who knows, you may learns something new, if your brave enough not to let technology pass you by...

Ken Bayard
KC8RDT

 

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Not a bad idea! Thanks to your work in listing the repeaters that have screwed themselves up with Internet linking systems, Hams who want to enjoy Amateur Radio can look these non-ham "repeaters" up on your pages and avoid using, funding, or participating in them.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Non-ham RF Radio Signal Repeaters?
Circular Square
True Lie...

Notice a pattern?
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
Many Hams have become outraged because time and/or money they donated to a repeater system ended up going to an Internet/Ham Radio hack instead. The new page will give Amateurs a place to check before they donate any of their time or money.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Why are you so bitter? You should check with a club in advance if you want your money spent in a particular way. Most radio clubs would be happy to take a donation without using it to do internet linking. There are other bills to pay, after all. Just because they have internet links does not mean that they are bad radio clubs.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Before the Internet link... (snip)[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
That paragraph amounts to quite a bit of negative generalization, which I don't think is supported or justified.

The truth of the matter is you don't care at all that "the internet" is being used. You don't like it because it's easy. If some new RF mode succeeded in making worldwide voice links trivial, you would be arguing against that as well.

When we make technology "easy", it is just a sign that we have succeeded and must move on to more difficult challenges. Making things "hard" just because some people think it should be is backwards progress.


</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Before the Internet link, a local Ham had been struggling to get his morse code so that he could upgrade his ticket to the general class...(snip)[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Maybe internet linking better suits what he wants to do! Or do you think worldwide casual chit-chat is better served by CW? If you want to develop CW skills and a sense of accomplishment, choose RF. If you want to brush up on your German language skills on the drive in to work, try internet linking!

They are completely different tools with different attributes.
There is no reason to be so negative about either one of them.

Also, internet linking nowadays sometimes makes the difference between an EMPTY repeater, and one that you will get a response on.


</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Story re: upgrade net (paraphrased)[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

It is trivial to block off internet links for local nets such as this. You might try learning about the internet linking system used so that you can make an informed suggestion to the repeater owner. I'm sure if your net is valued, you do your homework on the system and co-operate with your repeater owner, you can get your net back online in no time.

Usually it is just a DTMF code, so you wouldn't even have to use a computer to do it.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Regarding people not buying new equipment[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Find someone who knows technology, and work with them to make the on-radio experience as good as the off-radio experience. Being constructive and helping with the problem will get more done that complaining about it.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
Putting out all of that information about Internet-linked Ham Radio repeaters will be useful to guys like me, who see the damage to the hobby and wouldn't touch it with a ten-foot pole,[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

As I said. If some new RF trasmission method became available that did the same thing just as easily, you would be against that too. It has nothing to do with Radio vs non-radio. You just want it to be _hard_, not easy. Having hams act in an argumentative, adversarial way probably does more to harm ham radio than internet linking.

As for the argument that making information available in a useful form somehow attracts "scumbags", I can't even comment.

By your argument (telemarketing jokes aside), Telephones should be nearly useless now that the Yellow pages are printed. You make a lot of accusations, generalizations, and have nothing to back them up. You have yet to say anything positive about _anything_. I can see why your local repeater might benefit from a more diverse opinion on the other side of an internet link.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
I think that you understand the danger to the hobby that Internet-linked repeaters and your page present to the Ham Radio community - but you just don't care.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

There is no danger to Ham radio caused by the innovation done by Hams. It's one of those "circular square" kind of things.

 

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (WB4ULK @ April 21 2003,02<!--emo&)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Just to let you know, your GENERAL statement was VERY IGNORANT, the first set of repeaters I looked up happened to be ours, which happen to be linked TOTALY BY RF! NO INTERNET WHAT SO EVER!
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

We have RF-linked repeaters in my area too, but if you will re-read my post, you will discover that I was talking about Internet-linked repeaters [IRLP, EchoLink] and never mentioned RF-linked repeaters at all.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

IRLP requires Ham Radio (RF) on both sides of the conversation.    What problem would an IRLP-linked repeater cause that an RF linked repeater wouldn't?     I'd really love to hear an example of one.    

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
Of course RF-linked repeaters do not present the same kind of problems to the Ham community that Internet linked ones do. The RF-linked repeaters use Ham Radio.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Just about anything has potential for abuse.  Even RF linked repeaters.    Like anything else, the vast majority of people use the technology responsibly, and a small but annoying minority abuse it.    

Besides that, RF linked repeaters have their problems as well.   Put simply, the economy of scale for RF connected links is unfavorable for country-wide connection abilities.    Focusing only on RF, then, can lead to bankrupt ham radio clubs and broken links.   More commonly, you just can't go anywhere you want with an RF link.   This limits ham radio's abilities in an emergency.   (among other things)    

Both RF links and internet links have their place, and the more tools available in an emergency, the better.  

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (WB4ULK @ April 21 2003,02<!--emo&)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
WHAT A TROLL, SHEESH!

Think before you speak!

Chris Hood
WB4ULK[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

I think this is more of a case of you drifting off-topic than of me being a TROLL... I made a legitimate comment of a constructive nature, in that I pointed out a problem with a new non-ham, non-radio mode of communication that many Hams are using in an irresponsible fashion, thereby bringing harm to the hobby and their fellow Hams.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Constructive nature?   You told a fellow ham he was ignorant, in a subject matter where you have shown yourself deficient!    It didn't look constructive to me.  

As to your concerns:

1.  Bad, evil, unlicensed people can transmit (true with RF or internet)
2.  Can't run nets because of internet linking (false, you can enable "local-net" modes on internet linking repeaters)
3.  Can't tell if someone is new visiting an area because of internet linking (Try asking them&#33.
4.  People won't buy HF radios because they will use internet linking (so what!  Different needs, different wants, and more spectrum available for people who DO want to do things the old-fashioned way. )    Plenty of folks use internet linking AND still buy HF radios!
5.  People won't learn CW because they can just talk on internet links.  (notwithstanding the very different needs CW and internet linking satisfy.   Apples to oranges).

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
Having a special web-site that lists the Internet-linked repeaters, alongside handy info for anybody wanting to come up with a bogus callsign will inevitably lead to the kind of abuse I outlined in my post. Sorry, but that's just how it is.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Repeater linking information is needed for anyone with a valid callsign too.   You seem to want to hide away information from 99% so as to not give it to the 1% that would abuse it.    That'll never work.  I got news for you - the 1% that would abuse the information already have it.  
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
The fact that RF-linked repeaters are on that site too will not stop scumbag "freebanders" and "hacker" wannabees from abusing the Internet-Linked ones listed there.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
No, it won't.   See, no matter which tools one uses, it is still necessary to prepare for and deal with those who abuse those tools.     With that in mind, why again do you suggest keeping useful information from the ham radio community?    Considering abuse would need to be dealt with either way, you gain nothing and loose everything.
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
If there was a "point" to your abusive, nasty post, I suppose it would have to be that since you have an RF-linked system at the web-site, that means you think that the Internet-linked ones there will magically be incapable of creating the problems for the Ham Radio Community that I outlined.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Nothing is incapable of causing problems.    Neither RF or Internet is "magic".   You want to eliminate one of the tools because it has problems, while freely admitting that problems occur with other systems too.   That is called special pleading, and it is a fallacious argument.
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
 Now, THAT is what I call "Ignorant"!  
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
You obviously do not seem to be that well educated about the internet linking options.   Before you go calling other people "ignorant", you might want to do a little reading.    I'm beginning to think you just have nothing better to do than argue on QRZ - if you had taken the time to even research IRLP, rather then excersize your "internet/progress/bad!" reflex, you would have solved some of your problems and maybe addressed some of your concerns.
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
Try to stay on-topic, Chris!  Take it easy, and don't be in such a big rush to get hot under the collar.

Most misunderstandings like this can be easily avoided by careful reading of any post you may intend to respond to... Attacking people over matters not even associated to their posts is bad form.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
And calling people ignorant is not?   I will let others make the judgement for themselves...
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
Do you have any relevant comments about what I actually said in my post? It's not too late to take a stab at it, if you'd like to try.

Charles,  N5PVL
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
You are so anxious to draw him back perhaps for another namecalling session!    Not very convincing.

If you don't like internet linking, don't use it, but don't pretend it isn't useful, and don't suggest that HF is a universal substitute for it.   HF and internet linking have very little in common, but they are both communications tools, they are both useful, and they both have positive and negative attributes.

 

Thank you for your addition to the Ham community!!!

TO STAY ON THE TOPIC OF THE POST!!!!

Your page will come in very good use!!!!

 

Wow! I would like to just add one thing. http://www.repeaterlink.org supports both RF linked and Internet Linked and stand alone repeaters I run a non-bias website.

And for those of you that stayed on topic and commented about the site. Thank you.