"Radiograms" Yahoo Group reaches 100 members!

This thread reveals a serious disease, which is killing ham radio. As a matter of fact, some of the statements and their tone are an absolute embarassment to the Amateur Radio Service. I wonder if VA3CSS and others give any thought to how their attitude is perceived by outsiders or those that might be surfing the Internet seeking more information about ham radio. Quite frankly, if I were considering ham radio as a hobby and I stumbled across some of the negative attitudes on QRZ.com, I would probably say "to hell with it" and find something else to do.

As to the specific topic of NTS and radiograms; the application of falacies of logic in this thread are blatant. What is perhaps most shocking is the fact that so many here are incapable of engaging in rational debate. For example some of the anti-NTS arguments can be made about any operating activity. Take contesting for example. Is shouting "59 Michigan" or providing a serial number and RST report over and over again for hours somehow more beneficial than a few operator exchanging radiograms? Are canned QSOs somehow morally or ethically superior to exchanging a radiogram? Is the content of 100, 200, or 1000 "RST, QTH, Name" QSOs somehow superior to a radiogram transmitted to a fellow radio amateur, solicited, unsolicited, or otherwise? Is checking into a weekly ARES net on two meters to hear the same round table comments week after week with no training content somehow superior to a Section NTS Net? Is weather spotting from one's living room window or basement, as is often done, somehow more valuable than a traffic net? Is directing traffic or standing on a corner at a walk-a-thon under the auspices of ARES somehow a superior operating activity? Can the later be done just as well with a cell phone? I could go on and on and on and on.

Of course, we also have the typical "mode parochialism," which has arisen in recent years. It's like a bunch of children on a school playground yelling "my daddy's smarter than your daddy. Na Na Na," only in this case it's "my mode is better than your mode. Na Na Na." We have one bloke shouting that all traffic should be handled digitally. Some want to re-invent Amateur Radio in the image of the Internet (why not just use the Internet?). Some hate voice nets, others hate CW nets, and round and round it goes. The Navy MARS op believes that MARS is the center of the Universe. Allow me to ask MARS-Man a rhetorical question....when was the last time his MARS digital net handled a real piece of emergency traffic? For that matter, how many real "morale" messages has he handled in recent years? Has he deployed to Afghanistan and engaged in combat recently? Is he providing a real service, or is he engaging in self delusion?

Personally, I've just about had enough of the childish arguements. There are a lot better things to do with my time, from training horses to fly fishing, and quite honestly, horses and brook trout don't complain and fight anywhere as much as some ham radio operators. VA3CSS and some of these others need to get out of their basement once in a while, grow up, and learn how to interact with real human beings.

In conclusion, here's how I see it. First, handling traffic is a perfectly honorable operating activity. Second, the yahoo group in question (and of which I am a member), is a constructive attempt to improve the NTS program. Third, those that choose to single out NTS for particular criticism should take a good hard look in the mirror and examine their own favorite operating activities and organizations using the same standards. Finally, I have the right to handle traffic if I wish whether I use CW, voice or digital modes, and I don't have to justify it to anyone....not even to a Navy MARS operator or VA3CSS.

Jim Wades, WB8SIW

 

This thread about NTS, Traffic handling, etc. is just about as irrelevant as CW is to everyday life.

Life goes on and it will go on when the NTS has been declared a dead horse.

 

Yes. It seems to go on and on. Have fun. Could be you need to change the water in your crystal ball.

 

NTS is more than traffic. It should be about learning something new.

How to behave during a directed net comes to mind. Making new friends.

You are not required to participate. That is your choice.

NTS is just another facet of ham radio. If you don't like NTS, please stay away, we won't miss you.

A closed mouth gathers no foot. A closed mind should be a crime.

 

Good Show

Your opinion is your opinion .

Duly noted . My opinion does not count .

Everyone has their niche .

J.

 

NTS Engagement

Concerning the ' ORIGINAL POSTER ' , why is it that his station originated traffic to his own station ?

It is all about traffic count numbers .


The Yahoo group is ' sealed ' if you do not subscribe . The mention of NEW people is just that they cannot

'LOOK' they must subscribe .

It is a wonderful way of inflating post counts !!!!!

Cool ......


J.

 

Well, it seems one can advertise their own private group so I'll post mine here also.

Have you ever dreamed what it would be like to converse with like minded people interested in and collectors of Hallicrafters Radios by the hundreds? What questions would you ask if you had a few minutes with some of the brightest and sharpest collectors and restoration expert minds from the United States, Canada and overseas.

Your dreams are coming true. The Yahoo Group, HallicraftersRadios, was launched in 2005 by K2WH in the hopes of being a place where ideas for how to expand and develop the testing, calibration and repair of Hallicrafters radios. Little did I guess that from such a humble beginning, in less than a 7 years, the Group membership would grow to almost 700 members.

Membership covers the spectrum of experience and interest. From new Techs to Ol’ Vets, each member has the equal opportunity to share ideas and experiences, and to learn from and be encouraged by each other. From technical discussions to history lessons and unexpected views and insights into the world of Hallicrafters Radios.

Included on the Hallicrafters website are many helps, files, and links that would benefit anyone interested in Hallicrafters Radios. The future for the Hallicrafters Radios Group is bright. Why not join the group today.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HallicraftersRadios/

K2WH <!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: ad_showthread_firstpost_sig --><!-- END TEMPLATE: ad_showthread_firstpost_sig -->

 

Cool

My question is why the archives are not accessible without joining the group ?

Is it an accomplishment to embellish post / membership counts ? I don't understand .

You have nothing to hide .

J.

 

Simple: Hackers, Spam, Porn and when joining, you must profess a real interest in the groups purpose. If you have a real interest, you would be able to pass the 20 question exam prior to joining.

Such as "What vacuum tube finals were used in the SR-160 transceiver" and "Describe the cosmetic differences in the S-38 series receivers".

Simple questions like that. It screens out the jerks, misfits and miscreants who just want to rob and steal our hard work that is placed in the archives.

You don't get to join and enjoy the labors of others. If you pass the exam and are allowed in after review of your answers by the board members, you are sent a $ 20 gold piece and honorary membership.

K2WH

 

Yet another attempt to drag the discussion down to a personal level.

No, Jim, I have no problems interacting with "real human beings," and no, you don't have to justify anything you want to do with this hobby to me.... or anybody else.

An opinion was stated. That's all.

Your skill at trolling a thread is worthy of note, however. Hopefully, you can help that Yahoo group with those skills.

Have fun with your recipe-grams.

 

No

Seven months into the hobby, I was a NOVICE learning theory and CW .

The novice gave me insight as to what the hobby offered . It was only good for 1 year .

If a novice did not upgrade ...... See you later ......

That was in the fall of 1961 .......

No phone privileges at all ....... Not like the seven months you have endured as a TECH / General ....


I listened and learned from the amateurs before me . I did NOT tell them how it should be done ....

Times have changed . I understand your plight ( answers to the questions deal ) .

Changing your call to not sound like a new guy ....

I am impressed .


Good Luck ( with your attitude ) ........


J.

WØJBC ( the only vanity ) , ex KBØTT , NØAGS , WBØVBL ..... etc .

 

I have no problem with "we've thought about it and private archives are the way we like it for whatever reason". It's your group to run however you like although I do wonder how those questions really classifies someone as a misfit or not. Someone with an interest in "stealing your hard work" on that subject might well be capable of answering the questions.

My earlier comment was just that I suspect (but I can't prove) that many group archives are set to private without much thought as to why.

Maybe I've missed it but I've seen no credible evidence to suggest that a public archive with obscured email addresses increases "Hackers, Spam and Porn". The groups I'm in that have public archives don't seem to have suffered at all.

I think the last time I saw any spam was about 2007 just before I started using Gmail.

 

Secret Thing

One must sign into their private Yahoo Acounts ....... They want it that way ......

Hallicrafter radios are no secret ...... NTS is no secret ..... It is all about tracking number counts .....

I have done both ..... New guys are just for NUMBER COUNTS ....

They just don't get it ...... Neither one of those wonderful Yahoo accounts mean anything to me ....


We just wish to STEAL their wealth of information which is readily available elsewhere .


This makes no sense .....


What a HOOT !!!!!!


J.

 

Apparently you have been out of the loop for some time. Yes, Yahoo Groups added a spam filter to their site a few years ago and has done alot to eliminate spam. From time to time one gets through and this is why you must be "allowed" in and that is why they are private groups.

Want to see a real mess of a Yahoo Group, go to this site: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hallicrafters-Radios/ and join the group and read some of the msg archives. The site got so bad it was abandoned because it was hacked. How was it hacked? By having members emails available to all which was used to post all kinds of porn. Warning though, join it and then get out quickly.

K2WH

 

K2WH, that's all interesting stuff but nothing you've said suggests a connection between public archives and increased spam. I'm not trying to pick an argument with you and I admit that it's painless enough to apply to join if you're really interested so it's kind of non-issue but... it's still a curiosity to me as to why people make that connection when I don't think there is any real evidence to support it. I find it a strangely interesting debate. If nothing else it's a good exercise in logical thinking.

I'm not sure what you mean by "allowed" in. I'm not suggesting that non-members be permitted to post, only that they should be able to read the archives. Those are separate controls on the admin pages.

When you say that from time to time one gets through, how does that happen? A spammer needs to post with an email address of a member which means they either need to successfully join with their own email address or somehow figure out the email address of an existing member and send "from" that address which is technically trivial. i.e., they pretend to be an existing member sending spam.

If a spammer joins the group then that clearly has nothing to do with the archives. The new member approval procedure needs to be looked at. So the question then becomes: Do public archives provide a spammer with an easy way to discover the email address of a member? The email addresses are obscured in the archives so I think the answer is no. I've heard the arguments and thought about them. Some say that Yahoo don't do enough because they only remove the domain, i.e., after the @ sign. I admit that I wish they removed it all but that's just because it would be more convincing to people. I think what they do now is sufficient. There is no way for the spam bots to figure out the domain. But! some will say, ham radio groups are special because if a spammer sees what looks like a callsign before the @ they will take a stab at appending @arrl.net. That is at least a plausible theory but I'm not convinced that it happens in practice. I doubt that it's worth it for the spammers to mess around like that. I'd be interested to know from those who observe spam through a ham radio related Yahoo Group whether the spam usually comes from a @arrl.net address. If it does then... well... maybe I could be convinced. I'm a member of multiple groups both ham and non ham and I don't see any more spam in the ham groups than the others which suggests that the callsign@arrl.net trick isn't an issue.

I think by far the main way that spam gets posted to a Yahoo Group is when a member's computer gets infected with malware of the type that reads his address book and perhaps his inbox. Then he is part of a bot net sending out spam and the group mailing list is just one of many addresses along with all his friends etc that "he" is sending spam to. That has nothing to do with having public archives.

Once again, the Yahoo archives don't have the "members emails available to all" because they are obscured so that's not where the spammers got the addresses from. I think the bot net malware thing could become viral in the sense that other members may pickup the malware through the group if they're foolish enough to click on a link from their "friend" sending spam and then the whole group can go down hill rapidly. Or... perhaps someone else was building an archive of received emails and putting it on a publicly visible web site. I've seen that done with good intentions.

I've heard of group admins being tired of constant spambot requests to join. I can believe that happens a lot but once again, it's not related to a public archive.

About a month ago, I was searching for something about digital modes on Google and found a link to a message in this group.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/

A big advantage of having a public archive is that it's indexed by Google. I came to the group, read some messages, decided it was my sort of thing and applied to join. I probably wouldn't have found them and therefore wouldn't have joined if the archives were private. It was a nice experience to have a look in on the discussions first.