Radio Interference in Florida is a Felony

Nope.

No Cal Tech professor would say that, nor did.

Your statement is false. It is one of many statements you have made in the last few months that are false.

And I don't care in the context of this thread. Start a SETI thread. I would be delighted to correct false statements there on it.

Yep. Frank is an old friend. So what?

 

Thanks for informing us that you are, or will remain indifferent on this matter. Is that the same as being 'disinterested'?

If your indifference means less concerned than disinterested, that's encouraging.

 

False statements are false because they are not factual.

More false statements you made. At least you admit these... good start.

Why should we pay any attention to you when you exhort us to get involved, when you can't get the facts straight?

False statements are easily seen by others for what they are.

I wish to publicly state that W6EM does NOT represent the amateur radio service.

My apologies to those who have wasted time under the premise that amateur radio concerns have been presented by him.

 

Not a professor, only a Lecturer:

On May 4, at 17:47, Larry, KC7ULI posted this and, you saw it, but conveniently don't remember it:

Ponder this:

http://www.crichton-official.com/speeches/speeches_quote04.html

and this excerpted section:

Aliens Cause Global Warming

A lecture by Michael Crichton
Caltech Michelin Lecture
January 17, 2003

"...Some of the demons that haunt our world in recent years are invented by scientists. The world has not benefited from permitting these demons to escape free.

But let's look at how it came to pass.

Cast your minds back to 1960. John F. Kennedy is president, commercial jet airplanes are just appearing, the biggest university mainframes have 12K of memory. And in Green Bank, West Virginia at the new National Radio Astronomy Observatory, a young astrophysicist named Frank Drake runs a two week project called Ozma, to search for extraterrestrial signals. A signal is received, to great excitement. It turns out to be false, but the excitement remains. In 1960, Drake organizes the first SETI conference, and came up with the now-famous Drake equation:

N=N*fp ne fl fi fc fL

Where N is the number of stars in the Milky Way galaxy; fp is the fraction with planets; ne is the number of planets per star capable of supporting life; fl is the fraction of planets where life evolves; fi is the fraction where intelligent life evolves; and fc is the fraction that communicates; and fL is the fraction of the planet's life during which the communicating civilizations live.

This serious-looking equation gave SETI an serious footing as a legitimate intellectual inquiry. The problem, of course, is that none of the terms can be known, and most cannot even be estimated. The only way to work the equation is to fill in with guesses. And guesses-just so we're clear-are merely expressions of prejudice. Nor can there be "informed guesses." If you need to state how many planets with life choose to communicate, there is simply no way to make an informed guess. It's simply prejudice.

As a result, the Drake equation can have any value from "billions and billions" to zero. An expression that can mean anything means nothing. Speaking precisely, the Drake equation is literally meaningless, and has nothing to do with science. I take the hard view that science involves the creation of testable hypotheses. The Drake equation cannot be tested and therefore SETI is not science. SETI is unquestionably a religion. Faith is defined as the firm belief in something for which there is no proof. ... The belief that there are other life forms in the universe is a matter of faith. There is not a single shred of evidence for any other life forms, and in forty years of searching, none has been discovered. There is absolutely no evidentiary reason to maintain this belief. SETI is a religion.

...But scientists in general have been indulgent toward SETI, viewing it either with bemused tolerance, or with indifference. After all, what's the big deal? It's kind of fun. If people want to look, let them. Only a curmudgeon would speak harshly of SETI. It wasn't worth the bother.

...But that does not relieve us of the obligation to see the Drake equation clearly for what it is-pure speculation in quasi-scientific trappings."



Now, Michael Crichton is a famous author and an MD.  I thought this might be of interest in this thread.

Larry
KC7ULI

Does, that help?

Lee
W6EM

 

I would like to say that if my station was giving off RFI and did not know it and was hauled to jail and was prosecutedfor RFI, An was not given the opportunity to to correct it or accused of doing it an was not me. Just the word Fellony in your record would screw you for the rest of your life. The law needs to be more specific. If it is for un-license individuals that could cover lot CB'ers that don't have license and they don't even know what RFI. An no telling who else it would effect. Even throw ARRL dose not represent all of the hams. I think they look out for hams in general. Yes! this should be used for fun things as well as information and chages that pertain to hams. I live in florida and I did not know about this law. It is good to have a way of finding out about things like this. If some one came to visit Florida and was arrested for this. How would you feel? Just for a visit and your station was giving off RFI and you did not know it and affect a tv or somthing else and complaints were maid with out your knowledge. I think that Fellony is over board.. and it needs to be redefined. Thank you for bring this mater to our attention. An for BPL that is a whole other story who know where that will lead.
"73's N5MY

 

You most certainly have the right to appear, IMO, as uninformed and not worth considering.

But you don't represent the amateur radio service, and your exhortations and requests are more than often peppered with false statements --which appear to be caused by your failure to be aware of and/or represent the facts.

This has been an important lesson to others that your requests of 'call to action' should, IMO, be avoided as being factually unsound.

This is ham activism. But it is not ham radio.

73,
Chip N1IR

 

Factually unsound?  Sounds like the Drake equation.  I guess you now remember the piece on the preceding page from the Cal Tech lecturer, thanks to Fred's nice search feature.  Here we go again.

Railing about me.

Well, let's say that I posted a FL ham's (and group's) email, which I did.  And a release from the ARRL.  My errors were (1) not researching the effective date myself before using it in my correspondence; and (2) a mere careless typo when I transcribed the AAG's letter to this thread.

So, guess I'm guilty of those two sins.  I've already begged forgiveness.  Now, pray tell, what should I do?

Ah, the obvious.  I should stop this senseless, self-denigrating habit of posting on QRZ.COM.  If not for the sake of myself, for the sake of the entirety of ham radio.  I've done it a terrible wrong.....  By being an activist and speaking out.  Without my hip pocket in mind.

How about this, Chipster, for an idea.  How about a POLL.  Something like two questions.  No. 1 How many would like W6EM to stop posting?  No. 2 How many would like N1IR to stop posting?  Only vote once for either 1 or 2.

I could live with the results.  Whoever got the greatest number would disappear from QRZ.com never to be heard from again.  Could you live with the results?

Besides, we all need a practice session for the grand-daddy poll of them all, which will be appearing soon.

Lee
W6EM

 

This entire topic has now been demonstrated to be specious and built upon a fatal factual error with respect to date of implementation.

In almost a year, not one of the tens of thousands of radio amateurs in Florida have been arrested under this statute--when operating legally as licensed radio amateurs. Hence, even if in PRINCIPLE, the law is poorly written, it's implementation and impact upon licensed radio amateurs has been nil.

Nil.

N-I-L.

All you have accomplished is to waste our time, and to make ham radio look less than credible to Florida lawmakers and others. Again, my opinion.

If you had the best interests of ham radio in mind, you would ask Fred to totally remove the topic, as it reflects badly upon our service when viewed in the eyes of the general public. If not, it adds, IMO, strong support for the supposition that some very vocal hams will choose any and maybe all issues to hassle lawmakers--no matter how trivial or falsely based, and form views about the service which cannot be considered credible nor complementary.

Is that the sort of impact you had in mind, Lee.?

 

Your postings and the language and tact you use help to build a characterization of who and what you are. And, what you stand for.

Food for your thought.

I'll keep posting. Especially with respect to BPL issues, in spite of noise, personal attacks, etc. And, I encourage everyone to post their thoughts and opinions on any subjects relevant to ham radio. Don't be intimidated into silence. That's just what the noise wants.

73 to all,

Lee
W6EM

 

This entire topic has now been demonstrated to be specious and built upon a fatal factual error with respect to date of implementation.

In almost a year, not one of the tens of thousands of radio amateurs in Florida have been arrested under this statute--when operating legally as licensed radio amateurs. Hence, even if in PRINCIPLE, the law is poorly written, it's implementation and impact upon licensed radio amateurs has been nil.

Nil.

N-I-L.

All you have accomplished is to waste our time,  and to make ham radio look less than credible to Florida lawmakers and others. Again, my opinion.

If you had the best interests of ham radio in mind, you would ask Fred to totally remove the topic, as it reflects badly upon our service when viewed in the eyes of the general public. If not, it adds, IMO, strong support for the supposition that some very vocal hams will choose any and maybe all issues to hassle lawmakers--no matter how trivial or falsely based, and form views about the service which cannot be considered credible nor complementary.

Is that the sort of impact you had in mind, Lee.?[/quote]
Your postings and the language and tact you use help to build a characterization of who and what you are.  And, what you stand for.

Food for your thought.

I'll keep posting.  Especially with respect to BPL issues, in spite of noise, personal attacks, etc.  And, I encourage everyone to post their thoughts and opinions on any subjects relevant to ham radio.  Don't be intimidated into silence.  That's just what the noise wants.

73 to all,

Lee
W6EM[/QUOTE]
Lee,

These opinions I express should be taken to heart. You are not acting on behjalf of the amateur radio service.

You have stated, as fact, (to paraphrase) that 'amateur radio (ham) operators ...will go off the air on 1 July' (2005) because of this statute.

Ham radio operators will NOT go off the air on 1 July Lee. That is a factually incorrect statement. Maybe YOU will go off the air; but ham radio will not disappear from the face of Florida on 1 July.

There is no reason for it.

Why don't you get this? It is most puzzling. And as an opinion I have already expressed, not in the best interests of amateur radio in the eyes of the public.

 

I don't think you should be silent. I think you should continue posting. I also think you should be self-correcting. WHY DO WE STILL have the TOPIC POST stating that this statute takes effect on 1 July 2005! It's in the first line......

This statute HAS BEEN IN EFFECT as Florida law since 1 July 2004.....

I think you should be right. And that means basing your exhortations and 'calls to arms' with FACT.

Aren't you the SLIGHTEST bit embarrassed by the  error? Where is the public apology for misleading everyone about the implementation and scope of this statute?

Where is the evidence that ANY HAM has been held or arrested because of it?

 

I don't make it my practice to edit something that someone else has prepared. I haven't continued to say that the date was correct, as claimed. In fact, just the opposite.

If you want to contact the author and ask them to make a correction, that's fine. Go right ahead. If I receive a corrected copy, then I'll post it.

Yes, my mistake was using that date in my letter to the AG. And, in part, it invoked an opinion, which probably would not have been the case otherwise. I've said all this before.

Besides, an attorney who represented me demonstrated to me that dropping a carefully placed innaccuracy can produce results.

If my inaccuracy with respect to the effective date harmed anyone, then I'd like to offer my apologies. Sincerely.


Lee
W6EM

 

Anyone owning the ARRL version of Part 97 look if you will at pages 10-46,47...

Appendix 8

FCC LETTER: LOCAL GOVERNMENTS PROHIBITED FROM REGULATING RFI

for web site info go to Appendix 8

I believe this is what everyone is discussing ABT also for the newbies
a current copy of the fcc rules SHOULD be in your amateur station !! this will keep you out of trouble. and I believe that contacting your local SM may shed some light on the subject and are willing to even provide you with some info.

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By the way I found this statement works .. when conversing to a very curious person, ask them this what would happen if we DID not have filters on all transmitters and recievers ? just think of all the interference this would cause ? one minute some paging digital beeps for one point next a Fire Department page, the next TV Infomercial Buy this X brand Machine and lose 60 pounds tomrrow only 24 easy payments of $19.95, cordless phone call " Louie that present you sent for christmas those cookies were stale ! " Dah Dit Dah Dit , Dah Dah di Dah !, it would be a crazy world if everyone interfered with each other wouldn't it . Nothing could get done ! makes a person think by the way.

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By the way ... every person who is not a registered voter in FL had better get registered who has a Ham License, and is at the legal age requirements and should get involved with their leaders, oh BTW that should go to the rest of the US I email my represenatives on an issue pertinent to Ham Radio, or any issue I feel is important also I am a ARRL member as well, voted since I was 18 made the trip to the License Bureau and kept it updated ever since. I even wrote to my Govenor once ( B4 Y2K ) on an issue and was sent a Merry Christmas letter back, got a response I wanted.

Do not think for 1 minute they don't listen ... they do and if the Ham numbers are big enough to talk they will say there is interets, oh yeah contact all the local talk show personalities, write letters to the Editors, if a Issue here in Michigan is hotter than a fire cracker over a Casino issue up here, make that same motovation over this law to be repelled, even if you have to sign a petition to get it on a ballot ! OK so I said my comments and take my soap box with me ...

 

Memo to Florida Amateurs: Thank you for the information on the Florida law. I will reduce my travels to Florida, and will be sure not to drive my usual car (which is HF, VHF and UHF equipped) or carry an HT when I do travel there. You are free to quote me on my travel reduction, since Florida government usually tries to encourage travel to your fair state. (I've been there twice already this year) I certainly do not want to risk felony arrest for engaging in lawful, licensed practices.

 

Once again, the elected idiot strikes.

To ask whether an unlawful arrest merits recourse and compensation is absurd, of course it does, THAT is why it has been called 'unlawful' and merits compensation to those wrongfully arrested.

The Florida 'law' is worth about as much as the paper it's printed on and I myself would simply IGNORE the worthless trash as it is. It is the responsibility of the people to actively ignore worthless laws and force them to be stricken from record as they have no legal protection to stand upon, nor the merit to even exist and be recognized as a law.

The federal govt. has been usurping the rights of the people almost since we became a nation, but even more rampantly since 911 when kink george enacted that stunning piece of TRASH called the 'patriot act', and then the 'homeland security act' and placed a fool in it's charge.

You see people, the government does not own the spectrum, it is owned in this country by the people and only the people, and the use of the R.F. spectrum and its 'care' was taken over by the federal government without the consent of the people, and without lawful elective process.

Sure, one can say the constitution made no reference to radio, but that is beside the point. The spectrum has always been here, we simply had no previous knowledge or use for it until times of late, then the government took charge and started dictating who, what, where when and why we can use our resource. Not by a vote, but within the halls of the government(congress et al).

The sale of spectrum by this government is illegal as they have nor hold right or title to its sale, nor can the government show proof of ownership to legally offer to sell what it does not own, but yet, they have and continue to do so. THIS is why I contest any law that precludes my use of a free resource that can neither be owned nor sold nor controlled by any government that does not itself issue valid licenses for its own use but demands we the people pay the government a license fee to use what they don't own(ironic, huh?).

The Florida law has no teeth, no spine and NO legal precedent to back up its wording.
Let alone, it is an ILLEGAL USURPATION of the will of the people and does not recognize the will of the people within the context of its meaning or intent, but it does provide for prosecution of people it deems in violation and thus created a tax upon the person or persons the state has deemed an enemy of the state by violating this garbage 'law'.
This government is controlled in whole and in part by large corporations and greed alone, it does not provide for the people as stated in the declaration of independence, but operates as an individual entity with almost total control and power over the people they were elected to protect and serve. Show me exactly HOW I am being served and to what extent?

Also, there is a definite clause in the constitution's bill of rights that REMOVES power from the government and placed that powr solely on the shoulders of the people alone, and that is the second amendment. It states simply this: A well regulated militia, being necessary for a free state, the RIGHT of THE PEOPLE to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED! Where does that paragraph indicate control was handed to the federal government?
It does NOT provide for any federal regulation nor control, yet the federal government has constructed laws that tell me, as a naturalized citizen of thei nation, that if I commit a crime it does not like, I can lose my rights...HOW?
I never read anything that gives that much power to the governement at any time, and certainly not without a vote by the people on a constitutional amendment change!
There is nothing in our documents that gives the government total control, in fact, it sets finite LIMITS on what the government can do as set forth by congress in 1789 which provides 'enumerated'(limited)authority only, and those laws that are not specifically forbidden by the government are to be controlled by the states or to the people, respectively. Not one word of the document contains wording that allows for total usurpation of the laws nor the bill of rights retained by the people alone, and as written, are separate from congressional oversight by design, to protect the people from an over zealous government bent on doing what Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot and others in the past so easily got away with.

how far will we allow this to continue?
Til you can't even walk to a corner store without being stopped by some nazi demanding you show papers and proof as to why you are outside??

Evidence of corporate control of the government can be seen daily as large communications corporations(Nextel) never pay for thier licenses, or rarely, and always seem to file poorly written forms even a child can fill out, yet they pass through like butter(try that with your LMR filing).

What or who does Florida think they are anyhow?
When did a state become a nation that acted upon its own will and decide to become a dictatorial regime?

Does THAT sound like a valid excuse for a 'law'?

So what, a few piddly pirate stations fire up the air and piss a few folks off....does it really matter in the grand scheme of things?

If so, please tell me how they managed to change the rotation of the earth simply by not paying a fee to the feds to broadcast their views.

So many here are so cloded with thier ideas and morals, they can't see or think clearly.....How does a few tiny stations running without the blessing of the feds make it such a crime?

The feds don't pay for licenses, why should anybody?

Does the mere fact that someone paid a fee to get a scrap of paper somehow make that piddly broadcaster appear 'legit' since he paid his tribute tax to uncle sam, or does it make you mad that they didn't pay, and you did, is that it, really?
Confess the truth, it is.

The truth of the matter is this; uncle sam tosses everybody in jail if we do not bend to their rules, while they bend, distort, break and violate the rules daily and without consequence, so you see, I don't give a plug nickel if someone got something for nothing, it's the american way.

Jack Kennedy got his boy elected president with being a rumrunner during prohibition, which helped them build thier empire and prominence, so slap your own hands for not being slick enough to avoid paying the hand that bites you.

Forget about it, I am after I post this....

Do I even realize K1MAN is on or off the air? NOPE!
Does his operation affect me, even the slightest bit? NOPE!

Then why does a tiny group of wanna be broadcasters make you so damn mad and wanting to make still more laws, grow the government even larger and costing us more $$$ simply because you resent somebody getting something FOR NOTHING!!!

Good day all!

73!