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QRZ Policy Update - Ban on Trolling

Discussion in 'Amateur Radio News' started by AA7BQ, May 6, 2009.

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  1. KA5S

    KA5S Ham Member QRZ Page

    We partly agree. I think that, on the average, on the Web, common sense sometimes prevails!

    It is up to us to USE it.


    Last edited: May 9, 2009
  2. KC2EGL

    KC2EGL Ham Member QRZ Page

    Playing The Free Speech Card

    Those who play the free speech card are those who believe in free speech as long as your view agree's with theirs. If your opinion is not the same as theirs then you have voilated 'their' right to free speech. Freedome of speech does not mean you have a freedom to be heard. If you do not like what you hear change turn the tuning knob.

    CW Lives And So Does Amateur Radio
  3. K1QF

    K1QF Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    Good move

    Unfortunately this is a mvoe you needed to make. Excellent idea.
  4. KJ4CNN/SK2023

    KJ4CNN/SK2023 Ham Member QRZ Page

    I, too, am wary of attempts at limiting free speech, however, I recognize the importance of society's self-imposed restraints. For instance, in spite of our Constitutional right to free speech, it is unlawful to enter a movie theater and yell "Fire" if there isn't a threat of fire. Doing so may create panic that is unfounded. Free speech comes with responsibility; it isn't free in the absolute sense.

    I think Fred's new policy must be viewed in the spirit that it was implemented, namely that purposeful irritants be kept at bay. QRZ is very much like Fred's virtual livingroom where he has invited us to congregate. I would expect that anyone who yells "Fire" just for the hell of it would be asked to leave his livingroom, actual or virtual.

    And let's face it, we all know exactly what he's talking about, so let's not beat this to death.
  5. KJ3N

    KJ3N Ham Member QRZ Page

    Unfortunately, this is all too true. :(
  6. AE1PT

    AE1PT Ham Member QRZ Page

    Yup. Happens all the time Sue. I have concluded that the following topics whether deliberately posted as such, or any dialog on them turns into an immediate troll--with a troll convention soon convening to add to the feast. The topics are:

    • Anything to do with licensing
    • Anything to do with non-ham radio services
    • Almost anyone posting without a ham call
    • Anyone suggesting that the nature of amateur radio might be changing
    • Anyone suggesting that some facet of radio practice be changed
    There are more--but these are the most pertinent. It seems that rational behavior and discussion cannot be had on these topics. This is not an assumption--search the forums for any of the necessary keywords and look for the exception to the troll type post response. The almost guaranteed response has a valid explanation, but unfortunately my stating it would turn into a troll...:eek:

    Something of a more serious note is how quickly posters on this board run out of the ability to debate a subject, and turn to personal attacks and other sort of innuendo. An example for me was a little over a week I stupidly suggested that it might be time to consider a change in the license class structure. What I learned from this "troll" and the responses of over a dozen regular QRZ members was the following:

    • Most hams do not want any changes unless those changes make it more difficult for new hams to obtain new privileges. Not being an old school Extra, I should have no opinion on this (and no, let's not discuss this again--as it will violate the trolling rule)
    • I am too stupid or lazy to upgrade to extra
    • I am a crybaby that is unhappy with AR
    • I have no technical skills and am probably the village idiot
    • That it is obvious I am a CB'er, and should return back to that service as soon as possible
    • I should immediately sell my equipment and leave AR because obviously I am unhappy
    • So on and so forth
    Obviously, none of this had anything to do with the discussion about license change. Until everyone learns to be civil, I guess that troll rules are required--the trouble being that some things just never can be discussed. Granted, some have been exhausted. But seeing as some people just have intense difficulty in being civil--we add one more rule to the Zed. It is "The Tragedy of the Commons." And folks wonder and complain as to why there are so many rules, regulations, ordinances, and laws out in the real world. Oh well.
    Last edited: May 8, 2009
  7. W9PSK

    W9PSK Ham Member QRZ Page

    Not necessarily. In sysop mode, the program goes through a radio, which involves coax. So, someone using Echolink could indeed have a reason to need a PL259 while using Echolink.
  8. KB3LAZ

    KB3LAZ Ham Member QRZ Page

    Most shouldn't have it.
  9. W7DME

    W7DME Ham Member QRZ Page

    Hi Fred,

    At first blush, one could make the arguments that I have seen posted so far, but the bottom line is, that this site belongs to you, and no one else. Everyone is free to build their own web site and say what ever they want, but you are under no obligation to provide a service to anyone for the benefit of their First Amendment rights, that is unless you accept money from them.

    I am not an attorney, but it seems to me that if someone has paid money for your service, a contract has been made with them to provide the access that you had in place at the time of purchase and that you might be in jeapordy if you unilaterally change the terms of service, unless of course, you have an Ulea (I hope I spelled that correctly) saying you can do so without warning or agreement from your subscribers. I am only making an observation and not critisizing you or your decission.

    My personal feeling is that since you own the site, you should be able to make policy decissions without regard to anyone else.


    Mike - K7OV
  10. KY5U

    KY5U Ham Member QRZ Page

    Going to be an interesting experiment. I've heard Fred say a couple times that we're only a few percentage points (insignificant part) of QRZ.COM's traffic. I may be wrong, but it seems he's saying that this pooch can't be violated. If you've been around awhile, you know that many good and smart people no longer are on QRZ.COM for one reason or another. I believe there are enough newbees to keep QRZ going if everyone with any experience never posted again.

    The forum structure is a good one with ample place to ask questions. In the Opinions forum, anyone eschewing the proper place and posting an obvious question was viewed as a troll. Hams are a varied lot. Some real smart ones, and bunches of "not so much". What will this bode for QRZ.COM? I feel like Jerry Springer, this was a place many loved to hate and vice versa. You were going to be informed in the information areas, and entertained elsewhere.

    My guess is that we're so insignificant to Fred that he'll be happy with a empty mailbox even if it means a more dull read. But it is his choice to make. As I said, this will be interesting.
  11. NT7C

    NT7C Ham Member QRZ Page

    It's about TROLLS, not Freedom of Speech

    If Fred ran a newspaper it would be his right to choose what his reporters write. If he ran a radio station it would be his right to play the music he choose and to define what the on-air personalities say. (place qualifiers, legal or moral, here).

    Fred chooses to operate a web site. He requires the participants to follow certain requirements. The choice for the participants is simple. Follow or go away - Those are the extent of your rights in someone else's sandbox. You wish to speak contrarily, your right to free speech permits you to start a web site.

    That's the right of free speech I served in the military for (yes, Army, and yes, I have the medals, flashes, and funny caps too). And notice the difference. Nobody in the military has had to fight (take up arms) to defend the right to free speech (or any other basic fundamental of our style of government) from foreign aggression since the British in 1812.

    Fred, you give us a choice and I commend you for taking a stand to make QRZ what you envision it to be. Thank you for a cleaner sandbox and more power to you.

  12. KG4TKC

    KG4TKC Ham Member QRZ Page

    Very good move Fred-AA7BQ. One must realize that when human behavior reaches a certain low,then one must do what one must do. This has been the case since long before the Internet and the World Wide Web. Perhaps this will create a small spark in everyone to strive for more civil behavior. Thanks for the site and GL OM!
  13. WE5GNF

    WE5GNF Ham Member QRZ Page


    Thanks for this policy Fred. It's been long overdue IMHO. You have done the correct thing (politically) or
    (morally). For those that don't like it I am sure they can find another home. Thanks again.
  14. N6PJB

    N6PJB Ham Member QRZ Page


    Although, I only had 20 years as a Navy Corpsman, I fully agree with KJ4AUQ. Censorship is plain wrong and not in the spirit of America.. Many have died for our right to Free Speech. Besides, the idiots or trolls are merely amusing; I skip over them.

    I can now be banned for disagreeing with you.
  15. K0RU

    K0RU Ham Member QRZ Page

    Thanks Fred,

    Being a paying subscriber for many years. Its about time you've chosen this position. Do you need to increase the subscription fee? Please do, I'm sick and tired of that trolling stuff as well. I'll be glad to pay an additional fee to offset the loss you may encounter by dropping the dead beats. Enough is enough.

    The world has enough problems as it is, we don't need trolls stirring up more hate and frustration.

    I say Goodbye to the Trolls as well, just like I grab the knob on the rig and spin the VFO ... I don't have to sit and listen to it on the air ither.

    "Freedom of Speech" DOES NOT give you the right to Intimidate people, harrass them with negative email, attack them personally ... That isn't what Freedom of Speech is about... We've seen it all on here, people making negative remarks about one English, typing skills, all of which were directed to create anger and frustration with each other for no reason other then to be a BULLY. Again enough is enough thats what I say, you want freedom of speech ... Put up your own money and create your own QRZ.COM site and be done with it, you can have X-rated pics, crappy comentary and say whatever you want... There is your "Freedom of Speech"

    Thanks Again Fred

    Rob - K0RU 73
    Last edited: May 8, 2009
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