Mathematics Needed by Technicians

NA2CC · Dec 10, 2022

KC3TEC said: ↑

And i agree here, but the biggest problem is that employers want that degree and will accept nothing less.
You can have 10 to 12 years in college education in any field, but unless you have a degree to back it up your nothing.
My field in the navy ( weapons system specialist) dealt with electricity, electronics, hydraulics, pneumatics, ballistics, engineering, and chemistry.
And we had to demonstrate the knowledge and skills in order to advance in rate.
BUT according to employers we are untrained hacks without the degree.
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Unfortunate but true. You can bet that within a year of employment they would tell the young engineer that his department is moving to another state and give them the option to move or adios. This in fact appened to a collegue of mine in Trevose, PA in 1977. He was so happy in his first eng. job until his group returned from a meeting with the suits all pale as if they'd seen the proverbial ghost. The bomb had been dropped on them. He had been on the job only 3mo.
I'm not a practicing engineer any longer(changed course) but have come into contact with many managers and corporations and now realize a group of people at a BOD table is very dangerous. Maybe less so than is some other(dictatorship) countries but still bad news. I have seen functioning organizations in health care torn up with 'new management'. UGH. No offense.

NA2CC · Dec 10, 2022

W9YW said: ↑

I don't want to blather on the subject.... but a couple of things to add:

Monolithic disciplines are the bane of our existence. We turn out great health care professionals, few of whom are able to cross boundaries from their training-- although general practitioners and internists are good exceptions. Nonetheless, each discipline has much to keep up with, and a generalist finds it very difficult to sift through inter-disciplinary information.

Law also has the same problem. Finding an attorney who's willing to take on a general practice is nigh impossible.

People with two different disciplines as academic credentials are highly sought after, but the educational system doesn't actively promote this. An engineer-physician is tough to find because of the time needed to accredit both disciplines-- imagine the student loans! You're 35 before you're making your first dollar. The trades are no better. General contractors emerge from those that are (licensed, perhaps) plumbers, HVAC, electrical, landscaping, paving, and other disciplines who must also wade through the mind-numbing regulations regarding housing, zoning, local electrical code, permits, insurance, and more.

This has lead to silos, also known as the walls and barriers and lines that have been legally and ethically endowed to protect each profession from both liability, but also inter-disciplinary engagement. These barriers become monolithic, and become business plans, rather than professional engagement with the public and world. Ex: We do HVAC but not plumbing,

Hams are a highly inter-disciplinary bunch. Although electronics and engineering are common denominators, our local club has hams from all walks of life. There are professors, lawyers, accountants, HVAC techs, grandmothers, and more with a science-bent. Another common denominator is music, something that ties many tech/geek professions together as a common denominator.

We should learn from the motivations of people in amateur radio to find ways to sew the silos together. That is all.

73 Tom W9YW
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Indeed, Tom. I have BS in ChemE. as I'd mentioned and already understood what a spectrum readout was for example. But we studied Computer also and of course math up to difEQ.
I have learned much from my Ham buddies and love electronics, though it's been all IC's for while, but I have enjoyed the embedded stuff. Even programming in C beats Fortran(ouch). In fact, I had studied digital electronics on my own before becoming a Ham and understood for example the Tayloe receivers system used in the OCX for example. I'm an MD who has even programmed 32 bit using raw C in hex and binary. Our Hornet club engineer even oriented me to programming in ASM.
I've learned a bit about Audio as well and one club member is a retired machinist. I'm honored to be part of NB6GC USS Hornet ARC where I've learned much about carriers and getting around in them. Yes, I hit my head even though I am short. Really, my post college life has been quite a ride. We also have musicians as well two in Benicia Club and myself on the Hornet.
I've been reading lately about relativity(actually in 2005) but also about space/time. Some of that math is a bit much, not unlike Maxwell.
So, the journey goes on as long as I have the mental ability.

K4FMH · Dec 16, 2022

K2CA said: ↑

Friends, we have a new National Science Foundation-funded project called "Needed Math"

We are trying to sort out what math is needed by technicians in the manufacturing workplace (as opposed to the math that is taught in community college technical or applied math courses). The purpose of the study is to better align mathematics coursework with industry needs.

We've developed a 40-item survey that has been vetted by industrialists but would like to pilot test it with additional colleagues……especially manufacturing technicians or instructors who teach courses for manufacturing technicians. Electronic technicians working in manufacturing likely use different math, than say, those who work in biotech or materials fabrication. Please consider assisting us. Pilot testing is necessary to assure the validity of the survey items.

The survey would take you about 20-30 minutes. We're not asking anyone to do any of the math, just to tell us if each survey item is relevant--and if schooling prepares students to do these tasks.

I'm happy to answer any questions you might have. We'd sincerely appreciate your help.

Here's the survey link for technicians:
https://tinyurl.com/manutechnicians

Here's the survey link for technical educators:
https://tinyurl.com/technicaleducators

Michael Hacker, K2CA
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Hi Michael,

Is this NSF grant through a university? If so, which one and what is the grant # from NSF?

73,

Frank
K4FMH

AB2RA · Dec 18, 2022

K2CA said: ↑

Friends, we have a new National Science Foundation-funded project called "Needed Math"

We are trying to sort out what math is needed by technicians in the manufacturing workplace (as opposed to the math that is taught in community college technical or applied math courses). The purpose of the study is to better align mathematics coursework with industry needs.

We've developed a 40-item survey that has been vetted by industrialists but would like to pilot test it with additional colleagues……especially manufacturing technicians or instructors who teach courses for manufacturing technicians. Electronic technicians working in manufacturing likely use different math, than say, those who work in biotech or materials fabrication. Please consider assisting us. Pilot testing is necessary to assure the validity of the survey items.

I am glad to see someone finally asking this kind of question. Education, particularly in the technical field, should match the needs of potential employers. This is important so that a graduate can find meaningful employment and be highly productive, rather than spending a lot of time doing OJT. This translates directly to better earning potential. Technicians especially often want a hands on job with contact with the hardware, not a lot of thetas and betas. Exposure to higher level math gives some insight to how things work on a macro scale, but it need not be at the level often done in the past. In the 70s, Cornell engineering students took math from the math department; what was needed was APPLIED math, so you had the tools to do your job. Not useful, unless you are going into a research environment. Also, some thought needs to be given to whether the goal is hardware or software oriented. Software is important for all since a lot of testing is automated, and programming of the equipment would be essential. But hardware hands on gives insight that a Spice model cannot. You gotta actually design and build something useful, and discover why it does not perform as predicted; a learning process many students are denied.

Student loans and grants should be targeted to actual employment opportunities. It is a waste of taxpayer money and human resources to train someone for a non existent job, only to have them crushed under student loans or having a higher degree in an irrelevant field and winding up in food service. As much as a well rounded classical education might seem important, most people are struggling to obtain shelter (silicon valley folks living in their cars, even though they are employed), keep up with the cost of food, transportation, and all the rest. The government programs should be overhauled top to bottom to provide better outcomes; especially don't do student loans for non existent careers.
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AE7XG · Dec 28, 2022

K2CA said: ↑

Friends, we have a new National Science Foundation-funded project called "Needed Math"

We are trying to sort out what math is needed by technicians in the manufacturing workplace (as opposed to the math that is taught in community college technical or applied math courses). The purpose of the study is to better align mathematics coursework with industry needs.

We've developed a 40-item survey that has been vetted by industrialists but would like to pilot test it with additional colleagues……especially manufacturing technicians or instructors who teach courses for manufacturing technicians. Electronic technicians working in manufacturing likely use different math, than say, those who work in biotech or materials fabrication. Please consider assisting us. Pilot testing is necessary to assure the validity of the survey items.

The survey would take you about 20-30 minutes. We're not asking anyone to do any of the math, just to tell us if each survey item is relevant--and if schooling prepares students to do these tasks.

I'm happy to answer any questions you might have. We'd sincerely appreciate your help.

Here's the survey link for technicians:
https://tinyurl.com/manutechnicians

Here's the survey link for technical educators:
https://tinyurl.com/technicaleducators

Michael Hacker, K2CA
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As A retired auto tech and A mentor to younger tech's comming into the buisness I have always stressed the importance of MATH in the work place.
It has been my experence that all of us are lacking in Math skills. Not all could tell me the difference between milliseconds or millimeters. Go figure...

Mathematics Needed by Technicians

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