Issue #35: An Editorial on Copycat Ham Radio Products

Here's the forum discussion for the article posted as #35 in the Trials and Errors section of QRZ. Dave's editorial on copycat ham radio products uses the example of Anan versus KM3KM designs. Why steal another's look and feel when there's a whole world of cool ideas you could incorporate to make that product your own? Who knows why they did this, but your comments are welcome here.

 

Dave your very WRONG regarding the display of the ANAN, Mercury and also many other manufactures like the VK-AMPS that design, and firmware is OWNED and written by Alexzander RZ1ZR- it's used in many amp designs, it wasn't stolen or copied. end of story please do some research before making false accusations, you're not making yourself look good!

 

In fact, Dave you should go look at Alexzander's page, https://rz1zr.ru/ there you will see all his works and many displays that look very similar and Kenny is or was in fact using his designs as well as VK-Amps and many others- again do a little research before false claims- Your article should be removed and an apology sent to all involved, don't be like the nowadays typical media no research made before making false claims !

 

Hi Rick,

You'll find that I don't care all that much about "looking good." I would hope that anyone writing an editorial will feel the same. You post what you think -- that's what it's all about. And I remember when the original Mercury III was put up for sale, around 2018 or so. Kenny showed Alex's picture and thanked him publicly for his participation the design. Kenny did all RF engineering work, including telling the programmer (Alex) what he needed the software to do. Alex was quite good at that, and they were fine, until somewhere along the line some incorrect stories began to float around. I'd like my editorial here (as I said, it's what I THINK and you have posted what YOU THINK) to accomplish one thing . . . I'd like the truth to come out. And it won't come out with various fan-boys (you and me, I guess we'd both be labeled that way in reality) arguing the point. It will come out when KM3KM or Alex release the "positive proof" they both claim they have. Isn't this always the problem with "verbal agreements" . . .

As an aside, however, regardless of "who is right" on this matter . . . there are two design issues when you build a product, whether it's a car or an amp or a transceiver. Yes, the Anan is very innovative if they can pull it off to combine all those components under one chassis. Is it smart? Time will tell. BUT -- the OTHER factor in the design decision is the industrial design, or the outward "look and feel" of the product. If Honda copied Toyota on a car's look and feel, they'd be laughed at in the marketplace, despite what is under the hood. Here, Apache Labs has chosen to take the look and feel of another product and implement it as theirs.

My editorial is all about this fact. Not the guts inside, but the look and feel. It's not up to the standards of a company that I have publicly claimed to be one of the true innovators in ham radio. 'Nuff said but please come back if I missed a point you'd like to make, Dave W7DGJ

 

Rick, I've done that. And I've reviewed the excellent VK-Amp here in the column. Another good product, but from a company that once a few reviews are published, will have a year or two backorder and they are totally unproven as to how they will handle issues. I think the better example is this new Anan, as they went to extensive lengths to copy the entire look and feel of Mercury.

Dave

 

They need to find a more distinct brand identity if they want to do something like that. Being the innovative types they are I was surprised at this stunt.

 

It would be nice if you did some research before making inaccurate claims.

Many of the SS amp builder are using the great control software from Alexzander https://rz1zr.ru/ for their amp builds.

The good thing is thanks to Alexzander https://rz1zr.ru/ we now have great software to make all of these new SS amps works reliable and easy!

Try to do a better job at research before you make a post like “An Editorial on Copycat Ham Radio Products”

OK that’s all the attention you will get from me.

Good Day Linda

 

Analog Meters and Toggle switches ??? Thankfully it isn`t 1960 anymore

 

Yes it was empty Linda
Just like the research you did.

Another click bait attempt by you to get some attention.

What know one, on the Mercury FB group giving you that attention you you think you deserve , now that they pretty much all figured you out.

Have a nice day Linda.

Oh btw why you use your wife's account for those posts, sends the impression you certainly have something to hide.

Congrats Linda you got a few responses from me but no more after this .

I encourage everyone to take a look at Dave's aka Linda's common practices with groups and his posts and responses.

All click bait and away for him to get his kicks and attention.

Linda put your pen to better use like last time. And start pre filling those ballots like you did for last election.

That said. No need to respond to this. Like mentioned we all know your intentions to well.

 

No, it's not Rick - but, its interesting how product design in all categories, whether it's household design like a toaster or a sophisticated radio, seems to be benefitting now from the "cool" factor of combining modern technologies with the look and feel of yesteryear. Those were some off-the-cuff suggestions and real product designers would have distinguished the product and given it its own look -- that's the point, not my ideas. Here's an interesting article on that topic: https://www.yankodesign.com/2021/07...ality-to-take-you-on-a-trip-down-memory-lane/. Dave, W7DGJ

 

Hi Garry, Yes I was too. I'm not certain it was worth an entire chapter of my series, but I wanted to make a point. Thanks for jumping in, Dave

 

Hi John. The article is not to say anything negative about Alex - it's about the look and feel of a new product which copies the look and feel of another. Clearly, Alexander is a talented guy. But that work he did in design was done in combination with someone else who he has never credited. Here's a bit of research, something that you can conduct as well. He's been making income off this stuff for years, as you know. Go to his page and scroll down, looking at the schematics. Look at the date and signatures of those schematics on the bottom right side. Most of them are gone. But, you'll find that on one of them (oops!) the KM3KM signature line and date from 2018 are present. That's when KM3KM provided him guidance on one element of the design. Once again, I have no idea what the agreement was between those two guys and that's not my concern. But something is a bit fishy, wouldn't you say? Thanks for jumping in. In case you've missed it, I've referred to Apache as one of the most innovative ham radio companies in the world, and my article only comes because they disappointed me so with this total copycat stunt. Once again, it might be very innovative INSIDE, but they wrapped it in a product design thats already in the market from someone else. This isn't about Alex, its about Copycats. Regards, Dave W7DGJ

 

Rick,

I ask that no one get personal in responses here. Your anger is directed at me personally, and your post above doesn't support your view about the Apache copycat issue -- instead it simply targets me. I'll let this one stand, but don't post attacks again please. For those who don't follow Facebook, Rick refers to the fact that I will not (ever) give Mark Zuckerberg my information and identity on FB. If I make a point in a Facebook post, it will be under my wife's account who has zillions of relatives, nieces, nephews, friends and family, all connected on FB, and I always end with "from Dave, W7DGJ". I can't convince her to drop FB, so at least I have an avenue to make a comment now and again. I belong to the Apache group, the HAM RADIO group, and the KM3KM Mercury Products group -- please join us on any of those. Thanks, Dave W7DGJ

 

I guess I'm not sure I understand the consternation about this. This happens in so many other areas.

* Anyone ever had a look at the TYT TH-9800's display? Does that look familiar to anyone that may have owned a Yaesu FT-8900R? I don't know what agreement that TYT has with Yaesu to use the same interface. I don't know if they licensed the firmware, or even outright bought it from them because Yaesu doesn't have any need of it anymore. But, regardless, TYT chose not to 'reinvent the wheel', and use that firmware to drive their hardware.
* Looking beyond into the computer/software world - has anyone ever used a quick website development took to create their website? They're called 'frameworks'. They ask you for all of the parameters (text, colors, logos, etc), and it automagically creates a beautiful looking website for you, that you can brand as your own - as if YOU created all of the code that is required on the back-end to render the website. Again, it's about not re-creating the wheel. If there's a way to do it quickly, and you don't want to have a bachelor's degree in Web Development, it's more cost-effective to do it that way.
* Anyone ever used a Windows computer? There are MANY different hardware manufacturers out there, but they all choose one Operating System - Microsoft Windows - to run their hardware. Why spend the R&D captial to create a new OS when Windows (mostly) does a good job of allowing users to use your computer? Again - why re-invent the wheel?
* In the software development world, people create 'libraries' that they can sell to other software development shops to do certain tasks that they need. So, these shops have to do a cost-benefit analysis, to decide whether or not it's more cost-effective for THEM to develop these libraries, or buy from a third-party. If they buy from the third-party, then they would just link to these libraries to create their finished product. Again, it's about not 're-creating the wheel'.

So, Dave - this move by this Amplifier Manufacturer makes a lot of sense to me. The firmware already existed, and apparently ran their hardware like they wanted it to. They just needed to modify it to brand it for them, and sell it to us hams. They didn't need to re-invent the wheel, and spend the R&D to create their own. It was more cost-effective to do it this way.

 

Hi Ralph, thanks for posting and good to see you again. Apache isn't an amplifier manufacturer. They're a radio company. This is a big announcement from them, of a new 1500W transceiver. Cool idea! And it's a company known for innovation, so people pay attention. But then, instead of coming up with a look and feel of their own, they drop photos of it appearing exactly like a 1500W amplifier from another innovative company, KM3KM Electronics. Seems a boneheaded move to me.

If it was Yaesu coming up with a new IC-7300 killer that looked just like the IC-7300, there'd be a lot more attention. Instead, these are just two very small, innovative companies and instead of innovating on the product design (look and feel) they just copied (exactly) another big seller. Maybe not worth a chapter of T&E, but I felt that someone needed to take them to task. As I said earlier, if Toyota copied a Ford exactly or vice versa, it wouldn't matter what was under the hood. They'd get laughed at and it would hurt sales. The areas you mention are all "under the hood."

I appreciate your thoughts on other similar operating systems and so on, but those are all "guts" issues. Whatever is on the inside should be 100% Apache Labs (even though the schematic I posted from their partner shows the date and signature of someone else not credited) and I hope it's as innovative as I always thought that Apache could be. Dave, W7DGJ