Echolink Saves a life

If you are an Echolink user, and your license includes HF privileges, please take the time to visit this poll:

http://www.internationalvoting.com/int3/ask.cgi?pid=29-306

 

The question is, how far do you take this argument?

Is buying a commercial HF rig, with prefab coax, and a commercial antenna all that hard? Not really, but that will get you on the air. I would say, that for some, getting Echolink loaded and setting up your router so that it works may be just as complex.

The problem with the logic, is that it is setting standards on what operations are acceptable, and what makes a "Real Ham".

We are talking about Echolink now, but the same logic takes us into the pit. I do CW. I build my own antennas, I have home-brewed some equipment. I can repair my equipment. Now, should I post that those that don't, aren't "Real Hams"?

To say you shouldn't use Echolink, is no different then saying that you shouldn't use any antenna that you didn't build. Or, you should just hand in your license if you have to send your rig in for repair.

Sorry, but where does it end? If I have a engineering degree, am I somehow a "Better Ham"? Applying for a job at a broadcast station, it matters, but this is the Amateur Radio Service. You get a license, and "do your thing" within the regulations.

I don't look down on a Ham that is an Extra, but can't fix a cold solder joint in their rig. I don't look down on a Ham that has no idea what double-conversion means.

All levels are welcome. What does amateur mean?

To me, buying commercial HF equipment and pressing a mic key is not so much different then Echolink. I like working on my station much more then using it. The QSO's for me are the fruit of my labors. Others just like the QSO, and the technical part is how to pack the rig back into the shipping container when it fails.

Fact is, it is all ham radio. The argument that Echolink uses the internet doesn't hold much water, when some that say it isn't radio, may not even know how a radio works.

"Echolink doesn't use RF like my Icom HF rig does". "I don't have a clue what a PA circuit is, but I'm a radio man".

If you believe upgrading to HF, and then hooking up some commercial gear, makes you some kind of RF engineer, then you are missing something.

Again, all of this Echolink bashing is a big croak of BS.

There are many skill levels in this hobby. There are techs, that have no interest in HF, that are designing RF equipment up in the Ghz, that know a hell of a lot more about radio, then "Mr Extra", that can't even solder a PL-259 on RG-8.

So while we all bash away at other hams, maybe we can take some time to step down from the clouds of Mt. Olympus, and look in the mirror.

No matter how smart you think you are, you may find a few folks that are a bit smarter.

Give it a rest, and let hams of all levels, do their thing.

If you want Echolink users to upgrade, then show them the benefits. Comparing their brains to a Donkey's butt, isn't very convincing.

73 - Bob

 

All joking aside, this is probably the best post yet. Agree 100% on your rationale.

 

OK, there's the two polls. I think it will be interesting to see the results. Please don't think I'm going to use the results to slam NCT's. I'm not. I'm just curious and would like to see what the percentages are with respect to Echolink users. I believe Echolink users will find the results interesting as well. Please vote honestly so as not to skew the results. This poll will reject multiple votes from the same IP address and also will monitor a cookie to ensure no multiple-voting. Thank you, -KR4WM

 

Its not our place  as amateurs to expect anyone to upgrade .
We would like them to,none the less not our place to * TELL* them to
What gives Amateurs the right to expect anything from anyone?
Each individual has a right to make their own decisions in life.
Where there going in life whom will they marry  ,what kind of car you choose to drive etc.
The world is not the same ,we eat think talk different.
Some will and have upgrade ,but it was their decisions to make not yours.

I here by command All amateurs to wear * Yellow * and Talk on HF about the same subject ,
using the same type radio,antenna system everyday for the rest of your natural life.

I don't think so.

....
The last polls about Echolink were manipulating in all extremes .
Only ten percent of pro Echolnk operators will even see or much less answer to polls on QRZ.
Why?
There enjoying their hobby regardless of what is said and done here on QRZ.
This poll would be ignored by pro Echolink users including myself.
Reasons are Amateurs using Echolink could care less to what your opinion is.
Not flaming here, just the facts of life.

There are far more Amateurs on Echolink than you would think ,
From my log book of over three years its not the Tech class operator.
As a matter of fact its General  class and Extra that log into this RF Repeater.


There exists an extremely  * LARGE * minority of Echolink users who are not allowed to install HF equipment (deed covenants and restrictions, condo-dwellers, or landlord restrictions), and there are those who are infirm or in a nursing home.

At least to the Amateurs I have talked with over the years.

Echolink ,extremely popular as a means of communications  . *DIRECT *
 Amateurs have found VOIP invaluable in reporting to NWS ,NHC.
The public reading this article well understands that we as Amateurs  are more than willing to
experiment and improve on this .
We refuse to ignore anything when lives are in Danger.

        * Remember 911 *    Voip works , Amateurs work together while using  VOIP combined
with RF connected  links and Repeaters
.....


The root of this  *problem *? there really is no problem with echolink.
Its just your opinion.

If there is a problem its within ones self. And what they perceive as to how and what one considers Amateur radio.

........................................

So we can all put it behind us and collectively grow as a group - KR4WM

..........................


I find this statement Hilarius coming from you.



But still this is not a flame.

How do you expect Amateurs to grow as a group?
Please explain this ?    

As you have with Derogatory degrading post that slander fellow amateurs is not the proper way, thats for sure.

 

That's exactly the point.

Back in the seventies, the Novice license was good for one year. You were expected to upgrade to tech within one year, or you started all over. After that, you didn't have to upgrade, or were you expected to.

I took the novice and tech the same day so I didn't have to worry about it. But now 30 years later, I could still be a tech if that was my choice.

This amounts to the same old, "You are only a Ham if.." routine.

Intolerance of any person that doesn't do things the way they do things.

Sounds a bit shameful, when you break it down to what it really is.

Maybe it isn't Echolink that slows NCT's from upgrading, but a "FEW" intolerant people that give the "FALSE" impression that those of us with higher licenses are a bunch of ego-centric SOB's.

73 - Bob

 

>But still this is not a flame.

Nope, not a flame.

>How do you expect Amateurs to grow as a group?
>Please explain this ?

I'm speaking in generalization's Johnny. What can be done to get amateurs like me to accept Echolink. Would the software have to be changed in some way? When I say grow, I don't mean to grow in numbers, I mean to mature.
From dictionary.com: Grow 3. To develop and reach maturity.

>As you have with Derogatory degrading post that slander >fellow amateurs is not the proper way, thats for sure.

Johnny, every serious, respectful post I've ever made concerning Echolink was (generally) met with a load of your horse-hockey, and I didn't expect this serious and respectful post to receive any different treatment. I think everyone who reads the posts here know that you know the words and phrase "derogatory", "degrading", and "is it not" by now. You're not proving anything by using the same words in every post. There's nothing derogatory or degrading about comparing Echolink to a crutch. Were we referring to someone with a broken leg, would you consider it derogatory that I referred to that person as "using a pair of crutches"? Honestly, don't get yourself all worked up over nothing. It's just a figure of speech.

I do not hide the fact that I feel Echolink is bad for amateur radio. This does not prevent me from respectfully speaking with amateurs whom I know use Echolink. You, on the other hand, took offense to the extreme, and I (and others) retaliated. If you were to act in a more mature manner, you'd have more respect from the local amateur community. Of course I don't expect you to understand this, nor take my advice. You don't want my advice, I know this. So I'm not going to waste any more bandwidth on this topic. My parting comment to you on this is that going off the deep end never gets any problems solved.

The polls I set up are respectful and non-derogatory, and the results will be both interesting and speak for themselves. The only people who will think my last post is derogatory are those who are shallow and easily intimidated. I made an honest attempt to show how non-Echolinkers view Echolinkers- nothing more, nothing less. The two polls will either validate or disprove what we've (non-Echolinkers) thought all along, and won't embarass anyone if they answer the polls honestly. If we're disproven, then so be it. If we're proven right, I'm not going to wave a flag and jump up and down in my front yard. I won't release a sigh of relief. I'll just make mental note of the results, and it will help me understand better why Echolinkers use Echolink. If we're proven wrong, I won't dote about the results, nor try to conjure up some way to sway Echolinkers away from Echolink. I just think it would be nice to know the facts, one way or the other.

Whatever the facts are, they are nothing more than facts.

-KR4WM

 

I don't "expect" everyone to want to upgrade, but I question NCT's motives at becoming an amateur radio operator if they're not the least bit interested in upgrading eventually. Kinda like hanging a steak in front of a tiger- you know they want it! But if the tiger lies down with the steak in front of him and goes to sleep- aren't you the least bit curious as to what's wrong with this picture! Do you think the tiger would be just as happy with a piece of cheese? If so, why? I'm not an Extra class, but surely some day I'd like to upgrade! Why haven't I yet? Excuses that I make up as I go along. I don't have time to study. I don't understand the math. The extra privileges aren't worth all the study involved. Want me to make up some more? I will take and pass the Extra test.... some day. I think Echolink users are the same as me in this respect. It's just a bunch of excuses. End of self-deprecating rant. I don't want Echolink users to stop using Echolink, I just want to know why they aren't using HF, assuming they have the license, real estate, funding for the gear, and permission to install it.
-KR4WM

 

Much like BPL, despite our comments and objections, EchoLink is here to stay...whether we like it or not.

Doug, KB7RKY

 

I don't know if HF is actualy steak to the NCT (tiger).

To me, HF is what I enjoy. I have sold more HT's on Ebay then I can remember. They are fun to play with, but I rarely use 2m/70cm.

Many may have no desire to use HF. Who knows. But do they really think Echolink is the same as HF. I really doubt that. HF is about propogation, or lack of as is the case in this part of the cycle.

HF is about a magnetic wave, that you generate on a piece of wire, that can span the globe. HF is about communication that has nothing but air between you and the station you work.

Echolink doesn't replace what HF "is", anymore then a telephone does.

What Echolink does do, is allow hams to communicate with other hams, just like qrz.com allows hams to communicate with other hams.

What is the threat? If NCT's are interested in propogation, and the other cool stuff that HF offers, then they will join. If they aren't interested, then why should they join?

If someone's idea of HF, is just another way to talk to people, then use a telephone, internet chatrooms, or some other method of communication.

It is more then just talking to people, or none of us would spend the money, and deal with the TVI, antenna hating neighbors and the rest.

Echolink users seem to understand what Echolink is, and I never hear much banter compairing it to HF, other then from hams that are so afraid of it.

To say that I should not use a system, that I can use to connect to a repeater in Australia, because it isn't radio just makes no sense. I can make a new friend on that repeater and set up an HF contact. Echolink has opened horizons not available when the bands are dead.

If HF was just a way to talk to people, it would have been killed by the telephone a long time ago. Just like the telephone, Echolink is no threat at all to HF.

You seem be making something out of nothing. As to why some NCT's don't upgrade, personaly I really don't care, as it is their business.

As far as the number of users with HF licenses, look here:

http://www.echolink.org/logins.jsp

I see lots of extra calls listed.

There is a much larger "ham world" beyond the narrow world of qrz.com.

73 - Bob

 

That's right ... and just like BPL it's not doing anyone any harm one way or another execpt those who believe it is.

Chuck, AA1MN

 

Lets see...
Walk around (house, yard, street etc.) with a big bulky HF rig,
even a 703 is pretty darn big, with no guarantee to make a contact,
as it is counting on a good groundplane and a large antenna
for maximum efficiency, Or walk around with my ht and almost
guarantee a contact on EL/IRLP or any other VoIP node ?  

Hmm, I vote not to get a hernia, or tangle an antenna in
the power lines as I am walking.

A majority of the codeless countries make regular visits
to Echolink, I don't see it dying, but improving.

Do I think VoIP contacts should count for awards, NO !
However, if someone likes using it, why should I care ?

It's keeping one more person "interested" in radio instead
of going totally to the internet or cellular.


Until a "reasonably priced" interface exists to tie HF
and local VHF together, Echolink, IRLP and the other
modes will have to suffice.

 

I checked this thread because of the headline
about a life being saved and to quote the
Australian TV animal mate, "krikie."

Have we all, everyone and all who have posted
replies on this thread simply sank so low?
It is less than two weeks since this all started
and World War III is steaming full speed ahead.
( let the debates begin on this one....)

Echolink is communicating just like all the modes
described. I have not read all the posts as there
are 22 plus pages. Questions arise though.

Are all echo nodes on unlimited battery power? no
What happens if electrical power is lost? discconnect
Is Echolink connected to the Enternet? yes
Can the system be overloaded? yes
Is there a prota-call to reroute connections?  tell me
HF radio has a system to reroute messages through
VHF and UHF and other HF frequencies operated by
operators who make human decissions as to the
method of passing a message to an intended party.

It happened just within the last 4 months with two
hurricanes in the SouthEast. If there are no operators
listening to radios or ready to transmit help can not
arrive -  -   -   -  unless you have learned to use
telepathy. ( mind wave communications )

Be nice everyone.
Remember what Pancho Villa said as his last words.
"Don't let it end like this. Tell them I said something."
He knew as a celebrity he would be quoted, untill his memory was lost.

Do we want to lose our memories of what we do.
What we do is a service, be it a hobby or vocation.
That service can be replaced. We have duty to serve.

 

What can be done to get Amateurs to except Echolink?

Nothing  ! its up to the Amateur * person* and how they view Echolink VOIP.

Comparing  Echolink VOIP to using a pair of crutches is your view here Webster.Your opinion. Others don't see it your way.
 You see , Amateurs enjoy their hobby as  they wish to.   No one needs approval from you.

I know that sounds like I'm flaming you , but I'm not ,its the truth.

...
Echolink has had several updates over the years .
but I seriously doubt any of these updates could satisfy every amateur out there, just to suit *Fit * their needs.

If the software developer of Echolink even tried   ,the upgrades would come every hour on the hour.



You might say I took offense to the extreme ways you have posted to myself and others.
But in reality I took offense to how Amateurs treat fellow amateurs all together.
Actually that has nothing to do with Echolink,
or your infamous insulting post to myself  .

.........

Going off the deep end never gets any problems solved,
--kr4wm,  
....  

   I agree with you on this Webster !



Again you assume that I am angry with you .Again I'll explain, Not in the least.
I have come to expect this kind of comment from you.

Many of us reading here on QRZ , Eham etc, have noticed  you *Going off the deep end  *when discussions of Echolink  were posted ! Didn't solve any problems then either, did it ?

The only way for amateurs to *mature* is to respect others right in this hobby,no matter what class.


   This is really not about Echolink is it?

...............

Honestly, your polls will  be viewed and voted on  . But the majority Pro  Echolink VOIP crowd will never see it.

 

I'd agree with that one, and think that Echolink actualy would steer a NCT to an interest in HF more then just using local repeaters.

Reality is, Echolink isn't going away. Get over it.

Take a deep breath, feed your horse, and go out and scream at those idiots driving horseless carriages. They are the folks ruining life as we know it.

73 - Bob