Did the US Air Force take out an Amateur Radio balloon for $470,000?

I'm going to need a much bigger bag of popcorn for this thread....

 

Maybe- Is it equipped with an ID transponder for FAA ?

 

Yeah. It squawks "Shoot me! Shoot me!"

 

A $ 470K pico balloon? Or was that the price of the mission? KN

 

The 'ballooning' US debt response has only one other option, to file for Chapter 11!

 

I worked in a steel melt shop, and we made the metal that they use for molds for the Mickey Mouse balloons. So the more of them that they sell, the better it was.
Seriously, the whole thing stinks. I think that the Sidewinder missiles, which we made the metal for the tail fins, cost between 400 and 450 thousand dollars each, depending on which version. And while that is the easiest way to shoot down something air to air, it is a bit of overkill. The government only did it to save face, IMHO.
It seems like it would be better to identify the target before spending well over a half million dollars to shoot it down. Perhaps all of the ones used by Hams, schools, boy scouts, etc. should be required to carry some sort of identifier that the Air Force or the Navy planes could read from a fighter jet, and not just shoot it down. Although the cost to run one of the newer fighter jets, is over 70,000$ per hour. And again, I made the alloy for the fins in jet engines, Rolls Royce and Pratt Whitney. I am retired now, but the cost of the sidewinder missiles is close, and the fighter jet cost to run is spot on.

 

Except those Unidentified-Frequency-Objects...

 

I'm thinking people are incorrectly framing the cost of the Sidewinder missiles. There's no money saved in not firing them, that money was already spent.

Every missile has a limited useful lifespan. The missile can take only so many rides under a fighter jet wing before it has taken enough jostling around that it is not considered reliable any more. Just sitting on a shelf undisturbed means the glues, explosives, fuel, gaskets, wire insulation, and so on are aging to a point they could fail. Given that this is something built to explode the failure modes could be quite devastating if the missile is kept around until it fails. If a missile reaches end-of-life before being fired then it has to be carted off for destruction by the EOD crew. Firing this missile at a balloon may have saved some money because it's not free to haul off a missile for disposal.

Every missile in the USAF inventory is a sunk cost, that is money already spent. At some point these missiles will have to be destroyed. They can face destruction by being fired in training. They can face destruction by reaching end-of-life and getting hauled off by EOD. They can face destruction by popping balloons over empty water. There is no getting that money back, and there's only so long these missiles can remain as useful inventory.

There's value in using a Sidewinder missile to shoot down a balloon, that's because China is watching. China has to know how difficult it is to hit a balloon with a missile. Balloons have a very small radar cross section, a very small infrared outline, emit very little RF energy, so popping a balloon with a kinetic kill demonstrates just how capable our missiles would be against Chinese stealth aircraft. A kinetic kill is using the mass of the moving missile against the target versus the usual tactic of getting close and then exploding to project shrapnel and a concussive wave against a target. For reasons of safety the Sidewinder missiles fired at these balloons had their explosive payload removed before being fired. A failed detonation could mean unexploded ordnance in shallow water where some civilian could find it and get injured. A successful detonation means tearing the balloon payload into unrecognizable bits and hot pieces of metal raining down where it could do more damage.

Of all the things to be upset about the cost of the missiles ranks very low on that list to me.

 

There is nothing wrong, for example with PICO ham radio ballooning. Its a terrific STEM activity. This is the second time I have stated this. The problem is NOT hams, and its NOT balloons. Its presence--and detecting presence-- near or in RESTRICTED AIR SPACE . The ham PICO ballooning has no control of flight path and NO REAL -TIME (note REAL-TIME as in RELIABLE AND CONTINUOUS) updating of POSITION of the balloon. Again--ALL THE TIME--not 'Oh, it broke and we no longer hear from it'.

Increasing the radar cross section is the ONLY RELIABLE way to make sure that these PICO BALLOONS are reliably visible to ground radar--ALL S-band ground radar for example-- and continually track-able.

Hams understand WELL RF reflectors. It is NOT outside of our purview and knowledge base.

I have asked the ham-balloon community to take on this simple task as a innovation and STEM challenge and have been publicly held to ridicule and defamation. THAT is unacceptable. As such, I will not assist in the solution, and I will not accept any public discussions representing my position on all these matters as a basis for 'oh, W1YW is a BAD GUY', 'Oh, W1YW is not an EXPERT', "Oh W1YW doesn't know what he is talking about', 'Oh, W1YW is overreacting'.

LOOK AT THE WORLD AROUND you-- drones and 'unknown aerial objects' are closing airspace. The times are stressful and , again, dangerous. Its not a Sidewinder missile problem, Its a national security problem.

You may have your opinion. But you may not spin facts to some false narrative and invoke me in some negative as a result. I am not the villain in some simplistic story challenging those government bureaucrats versus the STEM-minded hams, That is FALSE. I will not accept that. This is now publicly stated.

I just wanted to make it clear that it is LIKELY that there will be a moratorium--as requested by the FAA-- on U.S. PICO ballon flights until new considerations for identifying the PICO balloons are reviewed. To IGNORE that likelihood in these dangerous times is---IMO-- a very POOR reflection of the radio amateur community.

Take control of the problem--and it IS a problem-- and work the solution. Be the solution.

73
Chip W1YW

 

They don't know to whom the baloon belonged.
Northern Illinois Bottlecap Balloon Brigade, based just north of Chicago — in an apparent attempt to determine whether their small balloon might have inadvertently caused a big ruckus.


NATIONAL SECURITY
UFOs? Airborne objects? What we know about 4 recent shootdowns
But the hobbyist club's members are warning that while their balloon, whose radio callsign is K9YO-15, is missing in action, it's too soon to say whether it was shot down by a warplane.

 

Well, you hit the nail on the head with the rubric of 'national security'...

Again: PiCO Ballooning is a terrific endeavor. The issue is:

A/ How do you enhance and or enable CONTINUOUS 'friend or foe' detection ability for PICO STEM balloons;

B/ Lacking a solution to A/ how will these PICO STEM balloons --prevent- flight path near and or into restricted areas, such as defense installations.

In the case of amateur radio ballooning, neither A/ nor B/ is presently enabled. An additional active transducer does not enable the above because the payload may be lost, leaving the balloon to continue to pose the potential problem as described.

If I have some time, I might dig out one of my balloons and try some measurements for the benefit of the STEM community. If so, I will post it on the Zed. But I will NOT assist the amateur radio ballooning community with *implementing* any solutions: they have not publicly demonstrated, to me, a positive attitude that adheres to the Radio Amateur's Code, nor seeks common ground in RECOGNIZING and SOLVING the problem .

Just as a useful aside, almost all radar folks--hams-- who could assist in the above are cleared for USG work. There is a low likelihood they would be willing to show their level of expertise to assist in a radar oriented solution given that fact. IMO their FSO would be all over them . Your opinion may differ.

I am independent. I do not have such restrictions.

73
Chip W1YW

 

Usually balloons don't circumvent the globe but rather circumnavigate.... just sayin...

 

1973:

was on temporary duty in holland.
one night i saw a ufo! it was moving slow and flashing a light.
i thought 'i'm going to chase it, catch it, and keep it!'
i got in my staff car and chased it across the eastern half of holland, and the entire western half of west germany.
took all night because it flew across country, whereas i had to stay on the roads.
dude, i was cutting down really narrow country lanes, tearing through villages,
small towns and a couple of cities. flying on the autobahn.
i finally caught up with it and saw the single light was many lights- and they spelled
'GOODYEAR REIFEN......GOODYEAR REIFEN'.........goodyear tires.
MAJOR adrenaline drop. and i still had to get back to the kaserne in time to change
my clothes and pick up my officers.
SUCH a maroon!

 

"Mickey Mouse balloons, huh"?
'Any clue on which country or planet they come from, that I can pass to The President?'

 

Chip W1YW[/QUOTE]

Understandable, Chip, but I wonder if you have any ideas how this can be done, given the physics of the balloon. The entire payload weight of the Bottlecap Balloon is reportedly about 16.4 grams, well under an ounce. That includes the GPS, the ham transmitter, the solar cells, and some battery capacity. Which is pretty amazing. What kind of reflector would show up on radar better and not weigh too much for the whole thing to still fly? And if the reflector had a lot of surface area, wouldn't that impact the track of the balloon?

Quite seriously, I know you invented an "invisibility cloak" that can hide RF, but can you suggest how to make its opposite, a nearly weightless visibility cloak?