25 APRIL .... the day of the father of the radio : MARCONI

Discussion in 'Amateur Radio News' started by IW2BSF, Apr 24, 2018.

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  1. KK5R

    KK5R Ham Member QRZ Page

    Tesla was working with electromagnetic fields which is a short step away, if at all, from radio wave propagation. The fact that he didn't use today's accepted terminology does not detract from his accomplishments. Even the patent office did not know those terms! Semantics, pure and simple.

    Sure, Tesla didn't know what he had discovered/invented and neither did anyone else because it was virgin territory. The operator here is the word "invention" where Tesla didn't know or didn't have the terminology to define/explain the phenomena but neither did anyone else. There are no doubt other "inventions" that would fail the test now as to what was acceptable then even bearing the fact that nobody knew what they had discovered as far as fully and adequately defining it is concerned.

    Therefore, in retrospect we can conclude that Tesla "invented" radio apart from communication and if anyone wants to be convinced of it, read the books referenced in previous posts. On the other hand, equally inventing was Marconi but what he invented was radio communication. Tesla was more into radio transmission of electrical power and actually experimented with radiation and was equally in the dark as to what he had discovered. Furthermore, he realized that radiation was something he could not understand and stopped all experimentation with radiation because of its potential for damaging the human body.

    Stubblefield also invented radio but because it was more a matter of electromagnetic fields and not the propagation of radio waves, he is attributed the "invention" of Radio Broadcasting and this is partially because his communications were one-way, not two-way. However, much of what was being done in radio was gauged alongside the telegraph as far as communication was concerned. Bell's telephone was not only able to do two-way communication, it was able to do both sides of the conversation at the same time. This means that the whole communications scene was not so simple, after all.

    You have to give it to Marconi like that historical piece said: He took what others had done and were doing and he put it all together into a practical and successful method of radio communications. The priest in Brazil and Stubblefield, however, invented systems that used voice communication and this sets them apart from those who merely used coherers, decoherers, inkers and relays to operate other apparatus. Tesla does not take anything away from Marconi. In fact, both discovered ways of using radio but Tesla used it for power transfer and is more famous for phase manipulation while Marconi refined all the then extant technology into a viable communication system.

    The world has survived both Marconi AND Tesla. :)
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2018
  2. W1YW

    W1YW XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    Wireless does not necessarily equal 'RF'. For example my IR remote control is 'wireless' but is NOT 'RF'

    No, it wasn't semantics. You need to go look at the patent claims, which are very clear that he was invoking a different (and incorrect) mechanism of propagation for his invention of wireless. He wasn't 'suggesting' an explanation. He was making it a requirement of the invention, through these claims. No one put a gun to his head to put that 'air conductor' language in the claims.

    Tesla saw his 'wireless' Tesla Coil lightning and assumed the air was conducting, and that as you got far enough away, the 'light' in lightning disappeared, but the conductive part did not. He was simply incorrect. And paid the price.

    There is no 'air conductor'.

    The reason he was rejected as the inventor of RF wireless--radio--IN HIS TIME was exactly because of these claims in his patents. They were not for anything like RF.

    No one brushed him off. He was just wrong.
  3. KK5R

    KK5R Ham Member QRZ Page

    The Brits equate Wireless with Radio. So do I. Perhaps we are talking about the same thing, after all...

    However, the patent office revisited the patent claims later and further defined the terms. This is why Tesla did not get recognition for the discovery of radio since it conflicted with Marconi's claims. Reading the history of later patent claims shows this.
  4. UB1ACI

    UB1ACI Ham Member QRZ Page

    The radio amateur in this video congratulates everyone on Radio Day.
    And Gulyemo Marconi was ... just a capitalist who loves money and fame.
    Do you love money and fame? Me not. )))

    KK5R likes this.
  5. KK5R

    KK5R Ham Member QRZ Page

    An important element in this is the thinking about the ether in the day, treating it as a physical entity that could not be defined, sensed or seen.

    It's like the definition of the Atom in that we have electron microscopes but it cannot see the atom. Therefore, theories came around to explain the atom and one of my friends with a Master's in Physics and Electronics told me that Atomic Theory is a theory because it cannot be seen but is explained by mathematics. He said the theory works mathematically and until another workable theory comes along, they are going with it. Therefore, until another good theory came along, the then theory of electromagnetic waves, they used the term Ether. This I have no doubt fogged the issue and just like the old idea that there is no such thing as perpetual motion, it was a moot subject, but in this case, it all centers on the definition of Perpetual Motion, doesn't it"

    In retrospect, we are all experts and some of us are truly geniuses... :p
  6. WA7GOE

    WA7GOE Ham Member QRZ Page

    thanks for reminding us of this very important fact !
    KK5R likes this.
  7. UB1ACI

    UB1ACI Ham Member QRZ Page

    I have to give some comment to the video. For those who do not speak Russian as well as I do.)))
    This is a humorous video.
    Assistant Popov asks: Do you want to connect with Moscow?
    Popov answers: Why? I already know what they will say to me from Moscow.
    I'm curious about what will be said about my invention in New York.
    From New York speaks " the voice of America":
    We have just been informed that some Russian scientist Alexander Popov has finally invented Radio!

    And if seriously - in Russia is really May 7 - Radio Day!
    KK5R likes this.
  8. W1YW

    W1YW XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    See page 51 of...


    Tesla wasn't talking about 'ether'--he was specific about air, and ground, conductors.

    No 'ether' shows up in his patents.

    Chip W1YW
  9. KK5R

    KK5R Ham Member QRZ Page

    Still struggling with terminology? In the day when Tesla was dealing with man-made lightning, they also did not use ether in the sense of radio propagation. IT WAS ALL NEW TO THEM...

    I have read the books about Tesla. Have you read those books? Do you think it would be a waste of time? Have you only read what was written at the time that in retrospect has to be further defined?

    I have read the books. Tesla was all about experimentation and theory based on what they knew at that time. Edison hired him and Tesla solved a problem that Edison had worked on for years and Tesla did it in three weeks...! And when Edison would not pay him what he promised saying it was just a joke, Tesla quit and went to dig ditches. That was where Westinghouse found him and got him to design the Niagara Falls power plant and the generators are working yet today. Marconi could not have done that. But Marconi wrapped up the accumulated wisdom of the day relating to radio and "invented" a radio communication system.

    What else needs to be said? This is what history tells us. No need to redefine history, is there?
  10. W1YW

    W1YW XML Subscriber QRZ Page


    I wasn't struggling with anything.

    The facts are apparent to anyone who cares to view them. I just provided you with the easy access. You can look at the patent claims yourself. Please do.

    The fact is that Tesla, himself, didn't, and didn't claim to, invent 'radio'.

    Bright, weird, inventive, dysfunctional, and odd fellow, but not the inventor of radio.

    Chip W1YW
  11. KK5R

    KK5R Ham Member QRZ Page

    From the dictionary...


    A hypothetical medium formerly believed to permeate all space and to be the medium through which light and other electromagnetic radiation move. The existence of ether was disproved by the American physicists Albert Michelson and Edward Morley in 1887.

    You think Tesla didn't know this? Tesla was not a linguist, he didn't use ether but he said the energy went through the air because to him, what else was there? Semantics.
  12. W1YW

    W1YW XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    Course he knew it. That's why he was specific on listing air and ground conduction in his patent claims:)

    No ether for Tesla. Here---you can ask him yourself.....


    "No ether."

    He's nodding his head---no...no...no...no...no..no....no...no..no.....
  13. UB1ACI

    UB1ACI Ham Member QRZ Page

    My friends, if you live in America and did not go beyond your state
    then ask yourself how old is Europe?
    I asked on one European site: Who invented the radio?
    One Frenchman answered (do you know anything about France?) -
    Radio invented courseÉdouard Eugène Désiré Branly
    And he is absolutely right. Without Coherer there would be no radio.

  14. KK5R

    KK5R Ham Member QRZ Page

    Read the books about Tesla. They are enlightening AND make one stop and think that here was a man who was a century before his time. He had to be dead and buried more than 50 years before people realized it was more than an expensive car.

    There are tons of information in his biographical books, much-much more than reading patent literature. I do not have to read the literature: This is NOT about legal ownership of a patent, it is about who "invented" radio. For Tesla to transmit electrical power 26 miles using electromagnetic wave processes and ignore that it was a form of radio revolves around semantics.

    Many theories are bound with what it means to this or that person. In fact, one preacher said that many theological problems revolve around what some people's definition of Grace is.
  15. W1YW

    W1YW XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    Sure, he was one inventor.

    But not Tesla.
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