RF-Seismograph: White Island Eruption causes worldwide Radio Blackout

There are three big difference between the RF-Seismograph and the Ionosonde
· The Ionosonde only measures in one direction vs. the RF-Seismograph, which will pick up any signal from any direction with its omnidirectional multiband antenna. The main focus of the RF-Seismograph antenna is on the horizon, except for 80 m which uses NVIS (Near Vertical Incident Skywave) propagation.

· The data capture time for each frequency is 7 s with and interval of every 52 s. The Ionosonde records changes in the ionosphere only every 15 minutes! The minimum frequency of an earthquake as described in “CompComputation of seismograms and atmospheric oscillations” is 0.00368 and 0.0044 Hz, with two ground periods of 271 and 227 s. Both frequencies are too fast for the scan time of the Ionosonde network.

· The RF-Seismograph is passive and listens to all digital amateur traffic on the bands it scans. It works like an oblique Ionosonde with no fixed transmitter. The RF-Seismograph uses RX only and therefore does not need a license to operate.

 

Every time there is an anomarly in the data - i.e Earthquake the Ionosonde threats it like an error and omits the data point.

 

The Ionodonde uses braodband atennas that are not tuned to specific frequencies. My antenna has 6 specific tuned resonators that will make all the difference in the world.

 

The Ionosondes do not measure skip!

 

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Dear VE7DXW,
I want to believe, I really do.

But, I'm a scientist, so I tend to "believe in facts" rather than opinions, strongly worded exclamations, or unknown data sources.

So, if you want to convince me and other scientists, can you please point to at least one or two ionosonde data records in the world which include your "4 hour blackout".

I've looked for them in the international archives, but honestly, I can't find one that supports your "4 hour blackout".

 

I have been looking at Ionosonde data and graphs for a long time. There is something wrong with it and they only give local propagation and not DX conditions.
Please become a memeger of my graoup at:
https://groups.io/g/MDSRadio

We issue daily reports and then you can judge for yourself.

Alex

 

Once again, this contains incorrect information about the Lowell ionosonde network. As mentioned previously, the cadence of most ionograms is 5 minutes, not "every 15 minutes" as stated above. As with Bonnie, though, it would be useful to clarify how the fast oscillation time you quote relates to a presumed 4 hour "blackout"?

Note that many of the ionosondes also gather directional information about the spatially distributed E and F region ionosphere (not just vertical), through use of a spaced multi-element rhombic antenna network on receive. You will notice that these ionograms (e.g. MHJ45) contain several colored traces labeled "O-1", "O-2", etc. These can contain directional indications and also indications of multi-hop propagation. I suggest you contact UMass Lowell for a reference document on ionosonde capabilities in their network, including a description of their outlier processing (which does not always reject single points outright, contrary to claims otherwise).

Finally, regarding oblique ionograms. As you might be aware, there are several groups that do low-angle oblique ionosonde traces by passively collecting signals from large swept HF transmitters such as the ROTHR system ( AN/TPS-71 ROTHR (Relocatable Over-the-Horizon Radar)). These are most definitely low angle, and should show a blackout if one exists, as their time cadence is compatible - and certainly would show a blackout over a 4 hour period. Comparing the results of these to your results would be instructive.

 

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Show me the data.... A

 

Hi Alex,

What specifically are you referring to? There are several suggestions in my reply above that you reference, so it's not clear.

Point of clarification: these are meant to be corrections to information on ionosonde / suggestions for additions to your work, and I regrettably do not have available time to go further than these suggestions. (Haven't figured out a way to add hours to the day beyond that which I've already committed to in funded work.) But your collective can do so with extra information as suggested, and you could then post them back here or in other places such as a journal article for the community to read and reflect (and comment). That could be mutually beneficial to all.

I still don't understand though what you mean by the "4 hour blackout" and how it relates to signatures of earthquakes measured in 100s of seconds. That could be clarified too.

 

Can you please show your comparison data on "all the difference"?

Decibels or IM3 or whatever... just looking for something more than a fanciful claim for "your resonators".

What I'm asking for is that you back up your claims with actual data that supports your claims.

This is not an unusual request, it is normal in the RF science or RF engineering field.

 

VE7DXW said: ↑
The Ionodonde uses braodband atennas that are not tuned to specific frequencies. My antenna has 6 specific tuned resonators that will make all the difference in the world.
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No, no it doesn't make a difference. They could use a bent paperclip and measure using furlongs per fortnight units. They have a calibrated system. You don't. Further, you don't even have a definition of what your are claiming to be measuring.

Finally, they understand the scientific method and proper use of statistics. You have neither.

 

Could it be that the earthquakes effecting the D-Layer? Since earthquakes emanate from the ground the D-Layer get effected since it is closest to it. Can the Ionosonde measure D-Layer attenuation?


A.

 

Yes - similar to any HF sensor, it can sense and would register excess attenuation if D region absorption were happening. None of the ionograms from that day (nor the D-RAP predictor) show evidence of attenuation in that manner, so I'm not sure where the idea of D layer attenuation comes from (first time it's mentioned in this thread).

I still don't understand the mechanism for causing 4 hours of "blackout" from a transient that is measured in 200 second duration. D region absorption events are typically across the entire sunlit hemisphere, and are triggered by large excess electron density from solar flare energetic particle penetration into altitudes below ~90 km. As far as I'm aware, the day in question did not have one of these events. What is the proposed mechanism then for a large change in D region properties? Just trying to understand specifically what is being argued for here.

 

The edit timer expired so I couldn't add the following sentence:

D region absorption due to excess electron density typically disappears in < 1 hour since the D region is highly chemically driven and recombination of excess electrons is very fast there. It would be useful to understand what extraordinary conditions existed to keep absorption going for 4 hours, as this would be unprecedented in the science literature that I'm aware of. "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" and all of that, but maybe there is an argument I'm not aware of (hence the curiosity).