FT8 TEST on air "DXpedition Mode" on 6 and 7 March !

So is RTTY, PSK31, Olivia, etc., etc. What's your point? If you don't like FT8, don't use it - but IT IS HAM RADIO. Don't say that it isn't, or that it'll destroy ham radio, or it shouldn't count, etc. You are wrong.

 

Oh, boy, that sentiment is 100% in violation of the Teh Zed "what is ham radio" rule. ;-) I agree with you, but there are far too many posters here who are quite vocal about their belief that their way is the only way ham radio can be enjoyed.

For example, I can't stand CW or ragchewing. But I don't say that those who engage in them aren't real hams, or that those QSOs aren't real QSOs, etc. I do joke about the colonoscopy and lumbago nets, but that's just teasing - their existence doesn't bother me, and I try not to bother them (mainly by keeping my VFO rusted on the FT8 frequencies).

 

An excellent report on the first beta test. Answered all the bug observations I had, and explains many more. I wish them good luck with further development.

http://www.arrl.org/news/ft8-dxpedition-mode-field-test-attracts-upward-of-500-participants

 

Hans, I see that the last month has done nothing to change your misantropic view of the future of ham radio. I take the opportunity to try to lift your mood, by copying an edited version of my response to your and other's input to the FT8 Dxpedition mode on www.dx-watch.com on 14 Feb.:

Judging from the comments above, ham radio is on the death bed and will soon be history. And only because of a new digital mode (presented 7 months ago!) specifically designed for weak signals, and therefore carrying some extra features like the need for precise times of transmission and decoding. I believe some of you hold a misantropic view of ham radio, not supported by recent evidence, like the ever-increasing number of hams, applying all sorts of bands, modes, technologies and activities in the various parts of their ham radio activities.

I took the time to check the above pessimists’ QRZ biographies, and found no lack of use of digital technology, digital filters, digital services like LoTW/eQSL, Club Log, Paypal, etc., with some of you having big gun stations probably not fully analog and paper-based. Since some of you seems to be into contesting and dxpeditions, I assume that digital logging is also quite widely used. So it could not be digital technology as such that is the problem with FT8, or rather anything not being SSB, CW and RTTY. I must admit that I am not smart enough to see the difference between computer-decoded signals in RTTY, PSK, or any other digital mode, and computer-decoded signals. I believe the use of macros in RTTY, PSK, Olivia, Contestia, and other digital modes can be easily compared to the macros in FT8. So what is the problem? The "problem" that you cannot hear the FT8 signals is very different from my experience and must be based on a misunderstanding that FT8 is silent. Far from it. And I guess very few can decode any digital mode on the ear, so why would you want to hear the signal in the first place?
It seems to me that it boils down the fact that the ingenious inventors on FT8 have built in an option for the operator, I say again “an option”, where the operator does not have make another click to start transmitting the replying macro. Let’s stop there, and take a look back. FT8 is a direct response to one of the drawbacks of JT65 and JT9, that every exchange takes one minute and that a standard QSO takes 6 minutes. JT9 and JT65 and their relatives seems to have deserved at least some respect, as they have been used in respected "real ham radio" activities like EME, meteor scatter, etc. On the plus side for JT9 and JT65, we see that they can decode signals at -30 dB SNR or so. As a response to the long decoding time, Franke, Taylor, Somerville et al, invented a mode which at a “cost” of approx. 6 dB decoding depth and a relatively shorter time between decoding and transmission, could increase the turnaround time by 4 times. With increased speed and much shorter time (1 sec FT8 vs 10 sec JT9/JT65) to respond to decodes, they also built in some options to make it possible to respond fast enough and to select which stations to respond to. I strongly believe it is this optional (I repeat: optional) automation that has created all the nausea among those who still insist that FT8 is not "real ham radio". However, gentlemen, it takes only a couple of mouse clicks to deautomate the responses and bring FT8 all the way back to real manual ham radio, working like RTTY, PSK, etc., only assuming that you are fast enough to orientate yourself among the (sometimes quite many) responders, select the one to respond to, and click on his line in the list of decoded signals, in the 1-2 seconds available. Because there is still a timing issue in FT8 not present in RTTY, PSK, etc. The latter have their signals buffered in the waterfall so you can look around for a while until you select which station you want to respond to. In FT8 and the other WS modes, you need to have a relatively precise computer, i.e. within a couple of seconds from correct time, to decode the signals, and to respond on time. For hams, and especially oldtimers having had to log everything for decades, precise timing should be a reflex, not an exception. And for that matter, I would not be very surprised if new weak signal modes pop up that is not so sensitive to precise timing, perhaps not at all.

The FT8 DXpedition mode also seems to be a great invention for the small pistols to work DX, and also to justify DX-peditions to rarely activated entities even at the bottom of the solar cycle. And I am confident that FT8, combined with PSK Reporter, have taught hams many a new thing about propagations, and what connections that can be made, which they would otherwise not have picked up.

Someone did not pay attention that things have happened, or maybe they are just a little short sighted on what ham radio has been and achieved through history, or conceit believing tham ham radio today or 30 years ago is what real ham radio is. Hamradio 2.0 – 3.0 – 4.0 probably took place only a very few years after amateurs were allowed on the air, more than hundred years ago. Without having made a thorough review of ham radio history and breaktroughs calling for a new version number, I would believe we must have reached Hamradio 25.0 or so. FT8 Dxpedition mode may bring us to Real Hamradio 26.0 or so.

So, cheer up, guys, ham radio is not on the death bed, FT8 is not the last nail in the coffin, you can still do everything you have done, and even do the new things in the old way. And if you bother, you may even learn a thing or two about the new stuff; however, only if you are open-minded and still have fast minds, fast eyes and fast fingers. Good luck, its really fun!

73 de Frode LA6VQ

 

Frode for President!

 

I've been reading some comments. I am not a regular to reply to such, but I'll bite today.

• "I'm not into just filling logbooks and I don't enjoy this because that seems to be what is going on here."
  • My Reply: I am into filling logbooks and if I wanted a conversation, I'd be on phone.
• "But having two computers slam at each other in almost full automation for hours on end until the log book fills is just not amateur radio - it's logbook automation."
  • This person has not spent time with FT-8 and it's obvious. If you have spent time with FT-8, you will notice that a) it isn't fully automated b) there is a distinct technique to getting a station to here you (running split, alternating your TX freq to they will more than likely see you, etc), c) FT-8 can be run in a near automated mode, but there is still a lot of attention a person must give to be successful.
• "We are here to have fun with ham radio. Contesting is not fun for us"
  • Just go away. Do something else you enjoy in this amazing hobby and leave others alone. I don't enjoy rag chewing on a HT, but others find great joy in that and I would never criticize it.
• "As far as we are concerned, it (contesting) serves no useful purpose. So, we don't participate"
  • Our EMComm Association uses contesting to practice for setup and breakdown of Field Days and in the field operating. It keeps us sharp and it also keeps us familiar with one another to the point where we know what each other need in the field when we need it and we know how to assist one another. Contesting is good practice.

 

I am amazed at how many people seem to think that their way of enjoying the hobby is the only, righteous way, and everyone else is wrong.

Huh, sounds like religion...

 

It appears that the only thing sharp about you is your sarcasm and your denigration of others who have a valid opinion that just happens to differ from your opinion. Why don't YOU "Just go away!"

 

No, you're incorrect. I told you I don't care what type of mode or experience you enjoy in this hobby. I honestly, don't care. But at the same time, if you don't like something I like in this hobby, it is not for you to legitimize what makes up my enjoyment in this hobby. That is why I said "go away." Just leave this part of the hobby alone if you don't like it; go do something else and stop disparaging people's enjoyment.

 

Sorry, despite my N2VQ call sign, I can't produce an American birth certificate.

I just noticed that the link I referred to for a previous discussion on FT4 was wrong. That did not take place in www.dx-watch.com, but in a discussion on FT8 DXpedition mode in www.dx-world.net. My apologies for that and some other typos. That discussion follows similar lines to this one, and they produce similar summaries: "Topic thoroughly debated. Views still differ. Let's just agree to disagree."

Frode LA6VQ & N2VQ

 

thank you for stating the above comment, I agree. We are free to enjoy the hobby anyway we want - great, but a good conversation, voice or digital is always nice too. Thanks Dave

 

It seems to me that HAM radio in general needs to encourage participation regardless of ones' mode of operation as long as the rules are adhered to.
A large amount of things have to be done correctly before you can click transmit enable and expect results.
Between my tech and general license there were a few weeks of reading. The first HF rig...took awhile to get all the buttons and knobs figured out.
The backyard dipole?...... took some reading to figure out what I wanted to do and how long to cut the wire. There were transmission lines to cut and solder ends on.
Have you ever interfaced a signalink to a computer? For newbie me it took several evenings a month or so apart. I was disgusted with the install and walked away for some time. Lots of audio level adjustments to be made.
Had I known CW I could have just plugged a key in, press a button or two and start in. Pretty simple stuff. It's too bad that I have zero interest in learning to send cw in the traditional way.Had I, I wouldnt be out the cost of a dedicated desktop computer and signalink.
Back to my point.....again as a newbie to all of this I have noticed that there is a group compromised of the old traditionalists. Thats cool....you guys have your way of doing things and that should and will be respected.
To that same group of traditonalists....the world is going digital like it or not.
The younger group could as easily set around criticizing the dinosaurs who set around listening to the dits and dahs. Full disclosure....I'm nearly 59.
Ham radio is supposed to be about fun. As another poster put it...I dont have his wording 100% copied but it was that HAM should be a hobby rather than an obsession.
In my view, if someone wants to fill their logbook via FT8 BFD.
Dont like whats on TV??? change the channel.
Ham needs to encourage growth and that will not come by discouraging or otherwise heckling users.
Carl
KI7IPX

 

If you can read, go back and read my comment. No one said anything about you or anyone else. My comments were about what I like and what I don't like. Are you so self centered that you think every comment here is about you? Don't flatter yourself. I could care less about you and what you like. I am not "legitimizing" your enjoyment of anything in ham radio. No one is disparaging other peoples enjoyment except you with your denigrating and sarcastic comments. The world does not revolve around you. I don't participate in contesting so there is nothing to leave alone. Now, that being said, why don't you go look in the mirror and tell yourself just how important you think you are. Maybe you can put yourself a few notches higher on your pedestal. Better yet... "Just go away." You bore me. You might want to change your motto to SELF ABOVE SERVICE. "Service above self" seems to be just a bit hypocritical.

 

Ham radio (not simply ham) DOES encourage growth and innovation.
Modes over last 2 hours
Mode Count
FT8 566684
CW 3254
JT65 1164
PSK31 280
JT9 89
SIM31 48
OPERA 36
RTTY 12
MSK144 9
ROS 5
OLIVIA 5
CONTESTI 3
SSB 1
There's some outspoken grumpy folks on the forum that might want to discourage innovations like FT8. They are pretty easy to ignore because they don't actually know much about what they are griping about. Innovation these days isn't with a Model T Ford ignition spark coil. FT8 didn't have to be sold to users...they use it because it works. They may get bored with it (I've been hearing that since the week it came out) and go on to something else or revert to the PTT mic/coiled cord. There's room for everybody to do their thing.
Naysayers, meh. They are always around in the noise floor.

 

As an FT-8 user I can see the mode being useful in an emergency to quickly see who is on the air.
Carl KI7IPX