VECs PROPOSE NEW ENTRY LEVEL COMMUNICATOR LICENCE

TO KD4MXE BILL, WE CAN ALL HOPE THINGS TURN OUT FOR THE BEST.it is some people have to rave and rant every time changes are about to be MADE. all thruout history the same story the NEW IDEAS VS THE OLD STATUS QUO OF THAT PERIOD IN HISTORY.on and on it goes. so BILL take care. hpe to wk u on the air in the future someday. 73 TOM N2NZJ NCI#4936    

 

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ag4rq @ April 10 2004,16:12)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kd4mxe @ April 10 2004,15:57)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">well   dave  yes  i am  still  here ,  and   he  is   Right ,my   spelling   is   not   that   good , But i  will  not  commet  Back   to  them  , Right  now  I  have  just  learned  that  i  have  got   a  heart  messing  up   on   me , and  i  am   not   sure  what  the  outcome   will   Be, at   this   point  i  just   hope  to Be   around  when   this  thing   is   over , at this   point  and   time hf   code    Ham  Radio  is  on   the  Bottem  of   my   List ,  3  weeks   ago   i  would  have  went   Back  to   them  ,  and   let  them   Hear  my   side   of   the   story ,  But  its   changed   now, and  i  can  not  get   to   worked   up  over  this  thing ,  there  are  all  ways one  out  there   that  will make  your  day   Bad   if  you  will   let  them , 73s, hope   to   work   you  one   day,Bill  kd4mxe  ,  Be   proud  of   what  you   have  today  tomorrow  you   could   lose  it,   73s[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Bill,

I'm sorry to hear that you're having heart problems. This hobby is not worth anyone having a heart attack or a stroke. Never mind the BS on these stupid threads. Take care of yourself.

73,
Mark[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Agreed,your health is more important than what someone else thinks or says.Hope you get to feeling better. 73 de W9GRN

 

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (W9GRN @ April 10 2004,23:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ag4rq @ April 10 2004,16:12)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kd4mxe @ April 10 2004,15:57)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">well   dave  yes  i am  still  here ,  and   he  is   Right ,my   spelling   is   not   that   good , But i  will  not  commet  Back   to  them  , Right  now  I  have  just  learned  that  i  have  got   a  heart  messing  up   on   me , and  i  am   not   sure  what  the  outcome   will   Be, at   this   point  i  just   hope  to Be   around  when   this  thing   is   over , at this   point  and   time hf   code    Ham  Radio  is  on   the  Bottem  of   my   List ,  3  weeks   ago   i  would  have  went   Back  to   them  ,  and   let  them   Hear  my   side   of   the   story ,  But  its   changed   now, and  i  can  not  get   to   worked   up  over  this  thing ,  there  are  all  ways one  out  there   that  will make  your  day   Bad   if  you  will   let  them , 73s, hope   to   work   you  one   day,Bill  kd4mxe  ,  Be   proud  of   what  you   have  today  tomorrow  you   could   lose  it,   73s[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Bill,

I'm sorry to hear that you're having heart problems. This hobby is not worth anyone having a heart attack or a stroke. Never mind the BS on these stupid threads. Take care of yourself.

73,
Mark[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Agreed,your health is more important than what someone else thinks or says.Hope you get to feeling better. 73 de W9GRN[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Well Bill, it is good to hear reasonable positings again. I do hope you are feeling better and that all will turn out well for your health. I do wish we could all agree to disagree instead of bad mouthing each other. We will never change someone's opinion on both sides. But instead of flamming should we atleast find something we can agree on??? Or is there nothing that we can agree on? I am sick of arguing about code!

 

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K3DAV @ April 10 2004,01:24)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N2NZJ @ April 09 2004,)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!>END.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Don't bother Tom.  These guys are in a world all their own.  The text on the page doesn't register in their heads unless it is in their favor.  Just read some of the past few, well thought out replies.</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">FROM KB0UZR.
You         have         so        much
space          between         your          words
        that         I        can't          read            it

That's stupid!
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>Well there's a guy who wants to seriously debate the issue.  Obviously,    he      just       likes     to      make       fun      of       people.     NOW   That's     stupid!  Hey Moron. Have you ever considered that he is handicapped, and that's how his machine types?  Try thinking of someone else besides the fool in the mirror. </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">FROM AG4RQ
The dumbed-down ham will pick up the "WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!>END" of the soldering iron every time. Ouch!
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>Gee Mark.  You really told him off.  And I know you learned that thing about the soldering iron, from personal experience, Mark.  Hey.  You said you were done with this topic.  We even gave you a nice send-off.  You lied to us.
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">FROM W0VUWell put on the IRON !!!!    Wouldn't know how to use it anyway. Leave it just as it is...
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'> Well... that one is self explanitory.  Didn't this one play a banjo in the movie "Deliverence"?

And these are the generals and extras that passed the CW exam, who are claiming that the ARRL proposal will "DUMB DOWN" ham radio.  Well guys,...looks like the ARRL is way too late for that.  The sad part is, they really thought those coments were very clever.  I'll bet they laughed real hard as they typed them, thinking to themselves, "I just told them a thing or two".

Give up Tom.  These guys are bull headed. Have a one track mind.  Stuck in the same groove on the old 78 record.  The windows of their minds have been nailed and painted shut since they passed the CW exam. Their egos moved out because they needed more space to grow. Their outputs are working overtime, and it short circuited all their inputs.  Legends in their own minds......etc......Chose your favorite, or make up your own.  They all apply the same.

Just think Tom.  These are the types we have to look forward to meeting on HF.  Now doesn't that just build your confidence in the future of ham radio? And if by some strange reason, the FCC DOES read these post's, they are getting a crystal clear reason why the ARRL proposal SHOULD be adopted.  BUT!  Just wait when 300,000 new generals invade the HF bands with our roger beeps and echo mics.  I'm gonna get all the truckers to start the, "Ch.19, Good Buddy Truckers Net" on 75 meters. EVERYNIGHT.   Oh my God, I can't wait.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
AAAAhhh,,,Hay I'm NOT trying to make fun of anyone !!  If I was, there would have a heck of a lot more said than that. It turns out I skip reading his posts because I have a h,,, of a time reading it. And I never heard of a computer that has to space like that because of a handicap. And I used to work with handicap people for years.

And I so sorry to hear about your heart condition, mxe. WoW! That's awful...I hope that something can be done, and we'll have to remember to pray for you...

73 and the best of luck

 

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (w0vu @ April 10 2004,07:01)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K3DAV @ April 10 2004,01:24)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">.  I'm gonna get all the truckers to start the, "Ch.19, Good Buddy Truckers Net" on 75 meters. EVERYNIGHT.   Oh my God, I can't wait.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
You said it all, just like it will be when all the no-code TECH'S get the free HF ticket. gimme gimme gimme....KD4MXE should learn how to spell also.  [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Well.... considering that this pre-judging is already embedded deep inside your head, we might as well humor you. It IS what you expect after all, right? It could never be any different, because you say so, right? And of course you could never be wrong about anything, right? So come on all you no-coders, let's give him exactly what he expects. Just to show him and the rest how stupid it really sounds. I'll start off.

Once I get the "Ch.19 Good Buddy CB Truckers" net, up and running full time on 75 meters, I'm going to build roger beep boards, and offer to install them in trucker's radios for free. It will make them feel right at home. And of course, I will give them the correct wiring for their new CB/Ham radios, so they can get those really cool echo mics screeming across 75 meters. Won't that be a hoot?

More tomorrow on the plans for the new CB/Ham bands. And boy do I have plans.

 

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (W9GRN @ April 10 2004,21:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ag4rq @ April 10 2004,16:12)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kd4mxe @ April 10 2004,15:57)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">well   dave  yes  i am  still  here ,  and   he  is   Right ,my   spelling   is   not   that   good , But i  will  not  commet  Back   to  them  , Right  now  I  have  just  learned  that  i  have  got   a  heart  messing  up   on   me , and  i  am   not   sure  what  the  outcome   will   Be, at   this   point  i  just   hope  to Be   around  when   this  thing   is   over , at this   point  and   time hf   code    Ham  Radio  is  on   the  Bottem  of   my   List ,  3  weeks   ago   i  would  have  went   Back  to   them  ,  and   let  them   Hear  my   side   of   the   story ,  But  its   changed   now, and  i  can  not  get   to   worked   up  over  this  thing ,  there  are  all  ways one  out  there   that  will make  your  day   Bad   if  you  will   let  them , 73s, hope   to   work   you  one   day,Bill  kd4mxe  ,  Be   proud  of   what  you   have  today  tomorrow  you   could   lose  it,   73s[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Bill,

I'm sorry to hear that you're having heart problems. This hobby is not worth anyone having a heart attack or a stroke. Never mind the BS on these stupid threads. Take care of yourself.

73,
Mark[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Agreed,your health is more important than what someone else thinks or says.Hope you get to feeling better. 73 de W9GRN[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
w9grn thanks for the Reply and support that means a lot 73s Bill kd4mxe

 

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kb0uzr @ April 10 2004,22:57)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K3DAV @ April 10 2004,01:24)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N2NZJ @ April 09 2004,)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!>END.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Don't bother Tom.  These guys are in a world all their own.  The text on the page doesn't register in their heads unless it is in their favor.  Just read some of the past few, well thought out replies.</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">FROM KB0UZR.
You         have         so        much
space          between         your          words
        that         I        can't          read            it

That's stupid!
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>Well there's a guy who wants to seriously debate the issue.  Obviously,    he      just       likes     to      make       fun      of       people.     NOW   That's     stupid!  Hey Moron. Have you ever considered that he is handicapped, and that's how his machine types?  Try thinking of someone else besides the fool in the mirror. </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">FROM AG4RQ
The dumbed-down ham will pick up the "WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!>END" of the soldering iron every time. Ouch!
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>Gee Mark.  You really told him off.  And I know you learned that thing about the soldering iron, from personal experience, Mark.  Hey.  You said you were done with this topic.  We even gave you a nice send-off.  You lied to us.
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">FROM W0VUWell put on the IRON !!!!    Wouldn't know how to use it anyway. Leave it just as it is...
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'> Well... that one is self explanitory.  Didn't this one play a banjo in the movie "Deliverence"?

And these are the generals and extras that passed the CW exam, who are claiming that the ARRL proposal will "DUMB DOWN" ham radio.  Well guys,...looks like the ARRL is way too late for that.  The sad part is, they really thought those coments were very clever.  I'll bet they laughed real hard as they typed them, thinking to themselves, "I just told them a thing or two".

Give up Tom.  These guys are bull headed. Have a one track mind.  Stuck in the same groove on the old 78 record.  The windows of their minds have been nailed and painted shut since they passed the CW exam. Their egos moved out because they needed more space to grow. Their outputs are working overtime, and it short circuited all their inputs.  Legends in their own minds......etc......Chose your favorite, or make up your own.  They all apply the same.

Just think Tom.  These are the types we have to look forward to meeting on HF.  Now doesn't that just build your confidence in the future of ham radio? And if by some strange reason, the FCC DOES read these post's, they are getting a crystal clear reason why the ARRL proposal SHOULD be adopted.  BUT!  Just wait when 300,000 new generals invade the HF bands with our roger beeps and echo mics.  I'm gonna get all the truckers to start the, "Ch.19, Good Buddy Truckers Net" on 75 meters. EVERYNIGHT.   Oh my God, I can't wait.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
AAAAhhh,,,Hay I'm NOT trying to make fun of anyone !!  If I was, there would have a heck of a lot more said than that. It turns out I skip reading his posts because I have a h,,, of a time reading it. And I never heard of a computer that has to space like that because of a handicap. And I used to work with handicap people for years.

And I so sorry to hear about your heart condition, mxe. WoW! That's awful...I hope that something can be done, and we'll have to remember to pray for you...

73 and the best of luck[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
kb0uzr thanksfor your postand do pray for me Right now i can use all the help i can get , the Lord is the one that can get my Heart to working again 73s to you and yours Bill kd4mxe

 

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (n0klu @ April 10 2004,21:53)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (W9GRN @ April 10 2004,23:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ag4rq @ April 10 2004,16:12)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kd4mxe @ April 10 2004,15:57)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">well   dave  yes  i am  still  here ,  and   he  is   Right ,my   spelling   is   not   that   good , But i  will  not  commet  Back   to  them  , Right  now  I  have  just  learned  that  i  have  got   a  heart  messing  up   on   me , and  i  am   not   sure  what  the  outcome   will   Be, at   this   point  i  just   hope  to Be   around  when   this  thing   is   over , at this   point  and   time hf   code    Ham  Radio  is  on   the  Bottem  of   my   List ,  3  weeks   ago   i  would  have  went   Back  to   them  ,  and   let  them   Hear  my   side   of   the   story ,  But  its   changed   now, and  i  can  not  get   to   worked   up  over  this  thing ,  there  are  all  ways one  out  there   that  will make  your  day   Bad   if  you  will   let  them , 73s, hope   to   work   you  one   day,Bill  kd4mxe  ,  Be   proud  of   what  you   have  today  tomorrow  you   could   lose  it,   73s[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Bill,

I'm sorry to hear that you're having heart problems. This hobby is not worth anyone having a heart attack or a stroke. Never mind the BS on these stupid threads. Take care of yourself.

73,
Mark[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Agreed,your health is more important than what someone else thinks or says.Hope you get to feeling better. 73 de W9GRN[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Well Bill, it is good to hear reasonable positings again. I do hope you are feeling better and that all will turn out well for your health. I do wish we could all agree to disagree instead of bad mouthing each other. We will never change someone's opinion on both sides. But instead of flamming should we atleast find something we can agree on??? Or is there nothing that we can agree on? I am sick of arguing about code!
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
dave thanks for your post ,and your concern , I have never Been to Bad to talk bad to people only when my toe is steped on do i get a little upset, But i cant change other people they have to do that them self only they can do that , But i can tell you one thing if the Right thing Happens to you , it can change your life , 73s hope to work you some day, Bill kd4mxe

 

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I just looked this fellow up on the data base--here's a surprise--he's a tech[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

I'm a tech too.

Does that mean I am not entitled to an opinion folks?

Are we really that divisive?

If this measure passes, I will be a General - you won't be able to tell if I was a Tech or a General before the "great fall of ham radio."

Will my voice be acceptable then?

I hate this about amateur radio. I got into radio because I enjoy it and do it professionally.

I don't need any comment I make rejected because my license class doesn't meet with your approval, and neither does anyone else.

Try and behave like the "old fashioned" hams you are, or your message is lost.

 

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (WA7SEA @ April 12 2004,09:41)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I'm a tech too.

Does that mean I am not entitled to an opinion folks?

Are we really that divisive?

If this measure passes, I will be a General - you won't be able to tell if I was a Tech or a General before the "great fall of ham radio."[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Glad you're a tech! Glad you're in the hobby----If you're interested in the upgrade don't wait for the completely reduced standards, if they are reduced, get in now! Study and take the tests. They're easy.....and of course your voice counts, don't mistake our concern for the hobby with any lack of concern for techs! I was one too! Till I upgraded.........the 5wpm is no big deal trust me........Ham radio won't "fall" as you said, but I can tell you---it is turning into a cb type radio purchase lazy mess-----The "fall" you speak of won't be so dramatic-----it's the slow, over time back sliding kind of fall-----exactly as it happened on cb--------The arrl sold us all out----Chris

 

Some of you fellows are really acting unlike the Amateurs you should be. This new proposal is not GIVING AWAY HAM RADIO. The ARRL and the FCC are not giving anything away. Interested parties who want to obtain an Amateur Radio License are just being given a better chance at communications, and the Lower Class Operators are being upgraded due to the lack of interest in the CODE. I have spoken personally to so many Hams in the past few months who are Techs wanting General Privleges but have NO INTEREST in MORSE CODE. I am one of those people. I hate the sound of all that beeping just to communicate. I say, along with others, "If you know morse code, then I salute you". Why force someone to learn something they will or may never use again. I honestly can tell you, and most of you readers can agree. If you took a test for the license you hold in your pocket, could you pass it? NO! Some can and that's great, but WHY? Why learn 5 WPM code to get more voice priveleges if you will never use it again. Why not upgrade Techs, and Tech Plus Operators to General? They are getting rid of bands where we operate anyway. Why not move Advanced to Extras. If your that damn good to pass an Advanced test, then in my opinion, your top of the line. Let's face it this world is changing fast in communications, and the Internet is HUGE but without electricity in the event of an emergency, how will our children help this country, or their fellow man in their own community, as we have done thru Ham Radio in the past? Should we kill Ham Radio by a lack of Interest due to Morse Code, and questions we may never have to answer again? I feel this change is great, and has the views and interests of Ham Radio in mind. N3ZVX Page

73's Randy

 

NEWSFLASH.
DATELINE: USA

MOUNTAINS FROM MOLE HILLS

Unhappy General and Extra class amateurs against change from across America today, took spoons and gathered the sand from the tops of Mole hills, in an attempt to create a mountain. Their efforts were soon flattened when they put all of the accumulated sand together, and created a speed bump.
But to keep their spirits alive, they all shook hands, and muttered, "Good job guys. This will send the right message to those Gimme Gimmies."

 

This thread just keeps getting funnier.
You'd think the FCC was taking away every ham's first-born.

You blame the FCC, but they aren't in the sentimental-over-CW business.  They've said so for 14 years, going back to NPRM 90-13, that they only had CW testing because the ITU required it.

You blame the ARRL because they "want to make money", but they're non-profit.

You blame the NCVEC, but they're just as divided as everyone else.  

And it's not the so-called "ham schools," either: W5YI wants to eliminate CW, Gordon West wants to make it like it used to be.

You say that CW filters out the CBers, but the primary bands for CB-style operation are HF.

And finally, you say there's no incentive to upgrade.  Well, hell no, there isn't.  Upgrade, to be insulted or ignored by the likes of you all?  No thanks, I'm happy with my Tech.

 

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (n3zvx @ April 12 2004,19:03)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Some of you fellows are really acting unlike the Amateurs you should be.  This new proposal is not GIVING AWAY HAM RADIO.  The ARRL and the FCC are not giving anything away.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Ah---hahahaha----OM, you're kidding right?

Free upgrades, no code test, not giving anything away? OOOOOOOhhhhh---I get it----sorry.

 

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">n3zvx



Group: Members
Posts: 6
Joined: Nov. 2003
Posted: April 12 2004,193

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Some of you fellows are really acting unlike the Amateurs you should be. This new proposal is not GIVING AWAY HAM RADIO. The ARRL and the FCC are not giving anything away. Interested parties who want to obtain an Amateur Radio License are just being given a better chance at communications, and the Lower Class Operators are being upgraded due to the lack of interest in the CODE. I have spoken personally to so many Hams in the past few months who are Techs wanting General Privleges but have NO INTEREST in MORSE CODE. I am one of those people. I hate the sound of all that beeping just to communicate. I say, along with others, "If you know morse code, then I salute you". Why force someone to learn something they will or may never use again. I honestly can tell you, and most of you readers can agree. If you took a test for the license you hold in your pocket, could you pass it? NO! Some can and that's great, but WHY? Why learn 5 WPM code to get more voice priveleges if you will never use it again.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
You guys are stuck on the code...

Alright already! Let's forget the code. Fine. No code...

But what the most of us want is the proposal,,(if it goes through),,Is to KEEP THE TEST! It should be insane to not to have them at least take the test. Because, how are they going to know what the band plans are??

Just say, "Here you go. Here's your general ticket." And they get on and don't even know what is out of band or not??

Common...