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HF Multiband Portable Vertical - Mad Dog Coil

Discussion in 'Amateur Radio News' started by VK7HH, Aug 30, 2023.

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  1. DL0GEO

    DL0GEO Ham Member QRZ Page

    Where exactly can I find the technical data about this antenna ?

    Uwe DL2YAK / Chief OP @ DL0GEO
     
  2. AA0KM

    AA0KM Ham Member QRZ Page

  3. KA1YBS

    KA1YBS XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    I have used Wolf River since 2016 or so. My only gripe is the coil sleeve adjustment wire is loose and had to be soldered to a new ring terminal. Going on what, 8 years now and never a fail. Taken it up to mountain tops and on islands, many camp sites. Just used it a couple weeks ago. It will not sustain 100W CW nor will any coil of small diameter that is wound on schedule-40 PVC.

    Wolf river sells all kinds of accessories, machined aluminum parts made in the USA. Check out the dipole adapter.

    Any vertical with a bottom-fed coil is electrically going to be almost exact. The difference is how high you put the coil, how many radials you use and their length...

    Check out Buddistick. SuperAntennas, homebrew... everyone will be about the same.

    Skip the coil altogether for 20m and up with the right whip length and have a fun day. Never gets old.

    73 de KA1YBS
     
    K7GYB and KG5BJV like this.
  4. KE0EYJ

    KE0EYJ Ham Member QRZ Page

    Some people just want easy. They don't like putting up something that requires much work. Maybe they don't have the time? It happens.

    For FT8 and CW, sometimes just putting up a simple and quick vertical will result in basic fun and a few contacts.

    If you have another 10 minutes at the onset, and a little space, a multibanded fan dipole antenna like this, on a 12m fiberglass pole with a balun at center, will yield far stronger results. Nothing like having the choice of most major bands plus no need to adjust a coil. And efficiency is off the charts compared to a loaded vertical.

    https://thestingyham.blogspot.com/2017/09/buddy-killer-15m-17m-20m-40m-antenna.html?m=1
     
  5. W5EDM

    W5EDM Ham Member QRZ Page

    The best advice I've so far received is "just get some metal in the air, someone will hear you". While everyone sits around splitting hairs, I'm hitting Australia from by backyard in Oklahoma with my wrc, 50' of coax, no amp, no tuner. Is it ideal? For my situation, yes. Is it the latest, greatest, and most expensive? Nope. Do I care? Nope. Is it the most efficient antenna ever created? Nope. Are you just needing attention and throwing something out there that really has nothing to do with the topic? Well...
     
    K7GYB, AE8EM and KI7CIL like this.
  6. AE0Q

    AE0Q Ham Member QRZ Page

    Huh?? Trying to understand where your RF is going and how much is being radiated to be useful seemed pretty relevant to a base-loaded vertical antenna discussion. At least I'm not trying to sell anything... If you don't care how antennas work, fine by me :)
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2023
  7. WU3U

    WU3U Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    Made a contact yesterday with V51MA in Namibia with my IC-705 running 10 watts on the new Chameleon PRV Portable Resonate Vertical base-loaded antenna. Antenna only uses a 58” whip. Station in Namibia was 7555 miles from my location. Not bad for one of those non-efficient base-loaded antennas! Recoded the QSO on my iPhone. One of my better nearly QRP contacts with any antenna.

    Curt
    WU3U
     
    K7GYB, KI7CIL and KG5BJV like this.
  8. K7DD

    K7DD Ham Member QRZ Page

    Just go to your favorite plumbing supply place where they cut and thread pipe. Get the size pipe you want and have them make a LONG threaded nipple, lets say 12" and 1.25 to 2.0 inch pipe. Ad hardware and your choice of wire and Bingo, you are in the money!
     
  9. K6STI

    K6STI Ham Member QRZ Page

    Use this program to calculate the Q of your coil. Select stainless 316L. That's the alloy Wolf River coils use. The resistivity of 316L is very close to that of 304, which Mad Dog uses. Then select annealed copper and see what happens to the Q.

    http://ham-radio.com/k6sti/coil.htm

    Brian
     
  10. AD9BR

    AD9BR Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

     
  11. KB7PF

    KB7PF XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    Boy lots of grumpy Hams out there ;0

    For all of you saying just put in 10 minutes and put up a dipole...did you ever think that might not always be possible?? I live in a ground floor apartment. I had a dipole up but I can only get it ~10 ft high and right against a balcony above me. Just isn't an option to go higher unless I take the time to go portable and operate somewhere else. I want to be able to operate from home. the 10 ft high dipole worked OK for 10 meter but for 20 or 40 it was pretty much an NVIS and that was not what I was going for. And, I'm not so sure many people are getting their dipoles high enough for 40 meter let alone 80. I bought a coil loaded vertical (cheap one) and was instantly doing much better than the dipole that was perfectly tuned. I like the look of this coil so I just ordered one and I think it is going to be part of the perfect antenna for me.

    They all have their use and it seems any antenna that anyone mentions at all will for some reason spark someone announcing that it is a bad one. Maybe bad for you so don't get it. But, for others, it might be just the right thing. I think this will be great. Other options? Yes and each have their pros and cons and that can be very situational and just might not be the same as your situation.
     
  12. K6STI

    K6STI Ham Member QRZ Page

    KQ4KXF, a 40-meter inverted V has a slightly smaller footprint than two 33' radials. I would think few apartments have room for either. But if you do, at 10' the V should outperform a short vertical with stainless steel loading coil mounted at ground level. If you can raise the vertical and radials above ground, it will do better, but so will the V. See my analysis and plots, which are oriented toward portable operation, in the comments here:

    https://forums.qrz.com/index.php?threads/your-next-pota-antenna-the-rez-antenna-startup.883129/

    Brian

    P.S. It's hard to tell for sure, but the Mad Dog coil tap appears to short turns like the REZ antenna. Modifying it to contact just one turn will lower coil losses.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2023
  13. KB7PF

    KB7PF XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    I look forward to seeing the results...but I do know that the 10 ft high dipole, against the building was performing great for neighboring states and little else on 20 or 40. The very cheap $100 verticle with 4 computer ribbon radials that I split to 8 radials instantly outperformed it. I don't leave the antenna out all the time and put it out for the weekend or on a weekday evening if I am going to radio that day and so I don't worry about covering ground. People stare at it but leave it alone. Finally reaching Europe with it. Had both up for a while and compared. The dipole did do well on 10m even though it is still not 1/2 wavelength above the ground.

    I won't be elevating the radials as it would be a tripping hazard for the dog walkers...and, as I said...it was performing so much better than the dipole for 20 and 40 that I am satisfied for now. I am in this location temporarily and when I am back at my house I'll do something more permanent.

    I have a science research background and I do know that outcome speaks louder than the theory for me. I believe the dipole probably does put out more power...but since it is going straight up...I'll take the vert. Am not going to put up a 36 ft mast with guy lines....so, coil it is. Will also be good for SOTA and POTA in areas with no trees and is pretty easy to set up and take down.
     
  14. G5TM

    G5TM XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    Base loaded vertical antennas are not the 'dummy load' some seem to suggest. Cebik found that a 1/8th wave vertical for 80m saw the base-loaded version being a respectable 3dB down on the full-sized quarter-wave and the centre-loaded a whopping 1.5dB better than the base loaded. The trick is to get the vertical radiator to be long enough in the first place - to be around a half the size of a quarter-wave and (this is often glossed over by many) - put down enough radials (8 quarter-wave worth minimum) on the ground. It is ground radials (and the nature of the ground itself under the antenna) that impacts favourably or otherwise on shortened verticals, and the actual length of the vertical radiator used, not so much the location of the loading coil.
     
    K7GYB likes this.
  15. G5TM

    G5TM XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    Hear hear
     
    K7GYB and KG5BJV like this.

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