25 APRIL .... the day of the father of the radio : MARCONI

When Mr. Trump learned that Russia - the birthplace of many inventions (including radio), he wanted to come and see for himself. If you do not know, Popov was the rector of the Electrotechnical University in St. Petersburg.
In the photo, Mr. Trump is in St. Petersburg on Palace Square in 1987.
And personally from myself I will add that we (HAMs) have there is nothing common with the fascists (even if they are inventors) in .

 

I think the issue is you called his wife..."I-V-A-N"

 

Sorry Guys but after a long court process the Supreme Court ruled in 1943 that the priority of invention of radio belongs to Nikola Tesla.
Tesla experimented with remote control and demonstrated a radio controlled boat in 1892 see:
https://www.engadget.com/2014/01/19/nikola-teslas-remote-control-boat/
Also Tesla has given lectures about radio - attended by Marconi.

There has been a tremendous bias in USA against Tesla and a very strong lobby in support of Marconi.
One of the IEEE historian reflected on US Supreme Court decision writing that "court decision is one thing, and priority of invention is something else".
(If true, that would throw away all the patent laws, all the patents and basically everything becomes subjective judgement)
Not to diminish Marconi's contribution to radio. But his achievement is for commercializing Tesla's invention and advancing radio technology (invented by Tesla).

I am happy to read on this pages that there are hams familiar with the history of Tesla.

Tesla died penniless in the same year 1943 on January 7th not living to hear court decision.
He died in the New Yorker hotel, which to this day refuse to have a plaque on the wall in remembrance that Tesla lived there. ,

73 - WF1A

 

Nowhere in the court decision does it say "Tesla was the inventor of radio" I have spent hours reviewing that document with my patent attorneys, many years ago. It was a very valuable lesson in claim construction, and attempting broadness in patent claims.

I guess the disconnect has to be said AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN. Here goes:

The 1943 decision says that COMPONENTS used in RADIO were ANTICIPATED by Tesla. Marconi used these COMPONENTS as an in vacuo RF--wireless-- SYSTEM. Tesla claimed to use the components as a CONDUCTIVE CIRCUIT --without-- WIRES. He asserted that AIR WAS CONDUCTIVE. That is a bogus mechanism.

Marconi's patents were invalidated for EQUIPMENT. NOT FOR WIRELESS RF radio. Tesla does not become the default inventor of radio. He becomes the default inventor of certain key components, such as a TUNED CIRCUIT. Which Oliver Lodge ALSO can claim invention.

Tesla's actual patents specifically spell out a requirement of "conductive" air. There is no conductive air. He got the mechanism wrong, and suffered because he himself forced that tie-in. If he had not put it in the patent claims, then we would be indeed saying Tesla invented radio.

But he did put it in the patent claims.

OK?

Can we stop trying to re-write history please?

Vojin, you are a smart fellow, and an excellent inventor. You are well aware that the INVENTION is defined by the CLAIMS. Go take a look at Tesla's claims You will be shocked.

If you doubt this, then sit down with patent attorneys and ask them. I did. I was shocked.

There's a lot of brilliant invention that Tesla did, but he shot himself in the foot over radio with his "conductive air" patent claims.

73
Chip W1YW

 

Below, I have copied Tesla's 645576 patent claims. This is the patent (bogusly) cited where he is attributed (falsely) 'inventor of radio'. You will see the outrageously incorrect requirement of 'air conduction' on all the independent claims, and almost all the dependent ones. THIS is what cooked Tesla' goose on failing to be the 'inventor of radio':

73
Chip W1YW

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1. The method hereinbefore described of transmitting electrical energy through the,

natural media, which consists in producing at a generating-station a very high electrical pressure, causing thereby a propagation or flow of electrical energy, by conduction, through the earth and the air strata, and collecting or receiving at a distant point the electrical energy so propagated or caused to flow.

2. The method hereinbefore described of transmitting electrical energy, which consists in producing at a-generating-station a very high eleclrical'prcssm'e, conducting the current caused thereby to earth and to a terminal at an elevation at which the atmosphere serves as a conductor therefor, and collecting the current by a second elevated terminal at a distance from the first.

3. The method hereinbefore described of transmitting electrical energy through the natural media,-which consists in producing between the earth and a generator-terminal elevated above the same, at a generating-station, a sufficiently-high electromotive force to render elevated air strata conducting, causing thereby a propagation or flow of electrical energy, by'conduction, through the air strata,

' and collecting or receiving at a point distant from the generating station the electrical energy so propagated or caused to flow.

4. The method hereinbefore described of transmitting electrical energy through the natural media, which consists in producing between the earth and a generator-terminal elevated above the-same, at a gen crating-station, a sufficiently-high electromotive force to render the air strata at or near the elevated terminal conduct'ing,causin g thereby a propagation or How of electrical energy, by conduction, through the air strata, and collecting or receiving at a point distant from the generating-station the electrical energy so propa gated or caused to flow.

ICC

5. The method hereinbefore described of transmitting electrical energy through the natural media, which consists in producing between-the earth and a. generator-terminal elevated above the same, at a generating-station, electrical impulses of a sui'liciently-high point distant from the generating-station, the energy of the current impulses by means of a circuit synchronized with the impulses.

G. The method hercinbetorc described of transmitting electrical energy through the natural media, which consists in producing between the earth and a generator-terminal elevated above the same, at a generating-station, electrical impulses of a sufliciently-high electromotive force to'render the air strata at or near the elevated terminal conducting, causing thereby current impulses to pass through the air strata, and collecting or receiving at a point distant from the generating-station the energy of the current impulses by means of a circuit synchronized with the impulses.

'7. The method hereinbefore described of transmitting electrical energy through the natural media, which consists in producing between the earth and a generator-terminal elevated above the same, at a generatingstation, electrical impulses of a wave length so related to the length of the generating circuit or conductor as to produce the maximum potential at'the elevated terminal, and of sufficiently-high electromotive force to render elevated air strata conducting, causing thereby a propagation of electrical impulses through the air strata, and collecting or receiving at a point distant from the generating-station the energy of such impulses by means of a receiving-circuit having a-length of conductor similarly related to the wave length of the impulses.

8. The method hereinbefore' described of transmitting electrical energy through the natural media, which consists in producing between the earth and agenerator-terminal elevated above the same, at a generating-station, a sufiiciently-high electromotive force to render elevated air strata conducting, causin g thereby a propagation or flow of electrical energy through the air strata, by conduction, collecting or receiving the energy so transmitted by means of a receiving-circuit at a point distant from the generating station, us ing the receiving-circuit to energize a secondary circuit, and operating translating devices by means of the energy so obtained in the secon'dary circuit.

9. The method hereinbefore described of transmitting electrical energy through the natural media, which consists in generating current impulses of relatively-low electromotive force at a generating-station, utilizing such impulses to energize the primary of a transformer, generating by means of such primary circuit impulses in a secondary surrounding by the primary and connected to the earth and to an elevated terminal, of sufficientlyyhigh electromotive force to render elevated air strata conducting, causing thereby impulses to be propagated through the air strata, collecting or receiving the energy of such impulses, at .a point distant from the generating-station, by means of a receivingcircuit connected to the earthand to an elevated terminal, and utilizing the 'energy so received to energizeasecondary circuitof low potential surrounding the receiving-circuit.

' NIKOLA TESL'A.

Witnesses: M. LAWsoN DYER, G. W. MARTLING.

 

I read an article about Reginald Fessenden in the December issue of Popular Communications and it prompted me to look into what he contributed to radio.

Fessenden put together workable radio systems and had communications from his system to a sister system owned/run by his company in from his station in the USA to the station in Africa before reliable CW communications were achieved from the USA to Europe. But what is significant is that his systems were consistently in voice and not some form of coded messages. This makes it closer to what we consider radio today.

He also was a pioneer in antenna experimentation and discovery.

Fessenden did not just copy what others had discovered and done while making vast improvements on them as did Marconi, especially in the beginning.

Fessenden may also be considered the inventor of Sonar He invented the fathometer for Marine use but another of his patents was for a radio altimeter. He rivals Tesla for his range of patents. Most of his inventions revolved around radio and its application.

Here is more detail on the life and inventions of Fessenden:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reginald_Fessenden

A list of Fessenden's patents are here and notice how many are radio related...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Reginald_Fessenden_patents

 

Chip, you seem to confuse the concepts of Invention and Patent.

If you look at Tesla as the inventor of radio instead of the person who patented the idea of radio, then you can see the distinction.

Many people fail in their patent applications and it falls back on the old FCC license view that you have to take some tests to see what you are doing wrong on the test and learn how the government sets up the tests. Until one sees what the government is doing in testing and patenting and learns to avoid the loopholes, the result is very likely to fail.

Remember that Tesla applied for one patent but the patent office said it was too complex so Tesla rewrote the patent application so it would be accepted and instead of it being one patent, it became eight patents for the same idea.

All things considered, though, Fessenden may have beat all the other inventors to achieve a workable radio system considering that while others were messing around experimenting with some form of signaling (coded) system, Fessenden achieved communication with voice and had broadcast music and singing while others imagined radio as trying to decide if that was an "S" they had heard mixed in with all that static.

Marconi took ideas of others and put them together and ultimately achieved a workable system complete with improvements of his own design. In this he was a pioneer and can be seen as the inventor of radio. However, others did and do the same thing: Taking the ideas of others and improving them into what becomes a workable system.

There is a difference between Invention and Patenting. In fact, the bottom line in patenting is that it records the first person to do something but there are many who find what they "invented" to be patented by others before they do and thus have their ideas pirated resulting in the originator of an idea getting nothing from their invention. Remember: Just because something is legal does not make it right!

 

Well, no.

When an inventor FILES FOR PATENT, then he/she is asserting that this limited monopoly privilege --and title of 'inventor'-- is defined, recognized, and extended through the patent grant. ALL matters involving patents ONLY extend the title of 'inventor' to those who invent and are recognized through patent.

Unfortunately you are simply wrong.

There are SOME, but not MANY circumstances where 'inventors' did not seek patent, and there your concern applies. For example, Les Paul is said to have 'invented' the solid body guitar, which may be correct. He did not file patent for same. He did, however, publicly divulge the invention.And his creation pre-dates others. The inventor anticipated others and produced prior art.

However, it does not apply to Tesla, who clearly filed and was granted patents. None of which were for wireless RF (Hertzian waves). He was NOT RECOGNIZED as INVENTOR on Hertzian wave communications--in vacuo RF wireless. He may have been IF HE HAD NOT APPLIED FOR patents. But he did, and invoked, at every step, the bogus REQUIREMENT of propagation through a CONDUCTIVE AIR STRATA. That is n-o-t radio.

The Court decision ion 1943 did NOT award Tesla the title of 'inventor of radio', They said that certain key components used by Marconi as part of Marconi's patent claims WERE ANTICIPATED by Tesla, as part of Tesla's patent grants. Not the same thing, by a longshot, as 'inventor of radio' for Tesla.

If you apply for a patent and you don't get it--or it has claims granted for something different--then you are NOT the inventor.

There is no evidence whatsoever that Tesla was the 'inventor of radio'.

If you disagree with patents---a mechanism to 'make it right'-- then you have the privilege of contesting it. There are post grant reviews, and exparte reexams, for example. And putting your money where your mouth is.

When are you guys going to stop feeling sorry for Tesla and cogitate how WEIRD it was that he was allegedly using a Tesla coil to MAKE AIR INTO A CONDUCTOR by raising its voltage, for his 'wireless' efforts?

That is very very funky and just plain bad physics. It is simply wrong. In error.

Shall we discuss his pigeonophilia next? Obsessions with '3'? Drinking steak blood for dinner? This guy had lotsa things messed up.....genius does not require such forgiveness of error on our part.

So don't.

He was a genius, and at times he was wrong. Easy.

73
Chip W1YW

 

Marconi bought the patents of those he copied. That made it FB for him to proceed.

Did you ever hear of Oliver Lodge complaining about that?

 

If you ripped the word Patent from your thinking and thought more about INVENTION — then maybe you would increase your understanding. But you are more into increasing your knowledge base instead of your understanding.

FORGET PATENTING...

THINK INVENTION...

Many are those who invent things but never patent them. Does this make them less the inventor of an idea?

Until you focus on who actually invented radio and/or elements of radio, you just won't get it. There was a lot of politics involved where it comes to Radio and who invented it (Stubblefield, Loomis, Marconi, Tesla, Fessenden, etc., etc.). In fact, many of the pioneers in the INVENTION of radio were circumvented and ignored because of some skulduggery by people who were more interested in their love of money than their wanting to advance the science and technology of radio communication. Even Edison has had a great following including Fessenden who thought Edison was the greatest inventor in the modern age. However, Edison was instrumental in holding back Tesla and if Tesla had been ruined by what Edison did, I'm sure Edison would have lost no sleep over it. No telling how many people Edison ruined by his taking their ideas over. Even IBM had, and may still have, notebooks that are given to their engineers and technicians for their ideas but what is not always known by the engineers and technicians is that anything written in that notebook is the property of IBM. And it's legal...

 

Marconi did not buy the patents so he could "proceed" to experiment, they were bought when he was marketing the idea.

The key here was WHEN Marconi bought them. Was it after he had experimented with them? No doubt it was. This does not make him a genius, it makes him a smart marketer and this is Marconi's greatest attribute: He was a smart marketer...

 

Chip, have you ever considered the invention of an idea apart from the patenting process? This is your problem: You cannot separate the idea from the patent. Once you do, if possible, then you will see why you think that the world here seems to be against you.

The idea of radio and radio communication was demonstrated many times before the system became successful and patents applied for. The premise of this forum article is who INVENTED radio and not who PATENTED the idea.

You keep insisting that Tesla's inferring that Air was the medium for radio communication is erroneous, you seem to forget that Tesla did not have a degree in Physics, he had a degree in mechanical engineering. In those days, who had any real concept for electromagnetic fields? Was that concept patented?

I suspect that many attributes of the physical sciences were not patented, they were accepted as the natural attributes of science and that Tesla attributing the "conduction" of radio waves to be the air was not argued between men of science of that day because most of them looked beyond the words and saw advanced advanced results and ramifications of the communications aspect of the invention. Twisting one word or concept to negate the idea in its totality was not their bag.

Did Hertz get a patent on his experiment into the use of a spark gap to prove his early proof of "broadcasting" when he saw the spark? He noted it in his records, no doubt, but if there were a patent office down the street at that time, I cannot visualize him skipping lunch and trotting down to the patent office to record it in order to keep someone else from getting credit for it.

Think Invention, not Patent, and the spirit and reason for this forum will be met. It's not "Who Patented Radio?" but "Who was the Father of Radio?" There are plenty of people in history relating to the INVENTION of radio and if you ignore the idea of patenting, that is enough. Why do you insist on making it a Patenting thing and avoid the idea of who actually invented radio?

You have a lot of experience in patents since you have patented many things yourself. However, we are not talking patents here, we are talking about invention and inventors. This is a much greater topic.

 

Nice to see someone set the record straight. Of course, in an outbreak of bull like this one, it is unlikely to make a dent in the wall of obstinacy.

 

"However, we are not talking patents here, we are talking about invention and inventors...

THINK INVENTION"--KK5R

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• In patent law, an inventor is the person, or persons in United States patent law, who contribute to the claims of a patentable invention.--

Occasionally Wikipedia gets things right, as above.

Tesla had no claims that would make him the 'inventor of radio'. He certainly filed, and was granted, many claims from the US Patent office. But none on devices which propagated wirelessly with in vacuo Hertzian waves.

It doesn't matter what you or I think or feel, or wish. This is the reality.

Tesla did not invent 'radio'.

73
Chip W1YW

 

He bought them when the issue of 'make, use, offer, sell' became relevant. In general, experimental 'use' is not considered patent infringement. Marconi had his own stuff, but understood that leveraging a system was key to success. He put together the system and made it work. Pretty cool.

No one strong armed Lodge and others to sell/license their patents to Marconi.

Marconi was an educated businessman who paid heavily for that education, and ultimately succeeded. He was also a clever experimenter and occasionally important inventor.

Great guy. Wish I had known him.