Did the US Air Force take out an Amateur Radio balloon for $470,000?

Then they would be shooting down 99 Lufe Barroons a day. They are all over , including our own weather balloons. Such Balloons do not have a NOTAM for Airmen; same as STEM or Ham Balloons. [A call to ATC does not create a NOTAM]

Those must pass FAR 101 sections on being under 6 pounds and what has to be between the Balloon and the lunch box payload and the descent parachute between those.

 

They have the option to not use DU on arming them, I have seen them [WartHogs] fly at lowest deck over MIS speedway as we were setting up our rocket launch before the NOTAM. Seems like it was 500 feet but you know that goes with a Calibrated EyeBall.

Edit: I think they moved over a mile to fly over us to give us a look at them !!!

 

The first balloon was shot down with a missile as it was too high to hit with cannons, as you appear to already know. The reason given for the others to not be shot down by cannon fire was that this was tried before and failed. I don't recall when this happened but a weather balloon drifted into somewhere it wasn't supposed to go so Canadian CF-18 Hornets were scrambled to shoot it down. They shot more than 1000 rounds at the balloon, a few hit, but the balloon is so low pressure that the lifting gas wasn't leaking out all that quickly. A missile has been shown to be quite reliable to get a hit and tear a large enough hole to drop the balloon then and there.

The A-10 Warthog is a ground attack aircraft so they can't fly all that high. Also, their targeting computers are programmed for hitting tanks on the ground, they might not be able to pick up a balloon well enough for a hit. The targeting computers on the A-10 are amazing, when the pilot pulls the trigger the targeting computer takes over the flight controls to aim the gun then returns control to the pilot after the trigger is released. Warthogs are capable of defending themselves against airborne adversaries but they use missiles to do so. There is one (maybe two, certainly in the single digits) reported kill of an aircraft by the A-10 cannon, it was a low flying helicopter. It was too low for the missiles to lock on and perhaps too high for the cannon targeting computer as well. The pilot likely just got lucky with a "golden BB".

As amazing as the targeting computers on the A-10 may be it may still be 1980s technology, it might not have the capability to add in targeting for airborne targets. The Warthog has been flying for 50 years and was considered a second tier airframe for much of this time. (First tier airframes would be F/A-18, F-15, F-22, F-35.) The probability of any significant upgrade to the targeting computers in the last 30 years is quite low. Then again a 30 mm hole in a low pressure balloon may not do much to bring it down. The projectiles out of an A-10 cannon are pyrophoric (meaning they like to burn through metal) but they have to hit something solid to "light the match" so it's not going to burn a hole in a balloon like it would through steel.

It would be an amazing sight to see an A-10 shoot down anything flying, even if it was a balloon, but I doubt the Air Force would go for it. One reason to call in the F-22 is to justify the big checks they had to write for the aircraft. If they use a 50 year old aircraft to shoot down balloons then they might see their budget cut. A rather unimpressive target for such an impressive fighter jet but it is what it is.

 

I'm not claiming this is a "big deal", only that NORAD was embarrassed for missing a spy balloon from China so now they are acting with extreme caution. There's a lot of unanswered questions. We do know that China owned up to the first balloon but claim it was a weather balloon taken off course by unexpected wind currents. The size of the payload suggests it was not a weather balloon. The flight path suggests it was not merely taken off course by the wind. I heard early reports that the payload was 7000 pounds, the Wikipedia page on this claims it was 2000 pounds, and if you heard it was less that 1000 pounds then that only adds to the evidence of how little we know.

There's people "making a big deal" out of this because the first balloon was not some tiny weather ballon that would bounce off an Airbus A320, it was carrying a very large payload that if it was that "golden BB" would take the wing off a passenger jet. There's photos on the internet of the damage done by a collision between a jet landing and someone that wandered onto the runway. I'll leave to the reader to seek out the photos given the disturbing subject matter. That's 1/10th the mass (give or take) of this balloon payload and at (and I'm taking a wild guess here) 1/4 the speed at cruising altitude. NORAD is freaking out right now because the payload could have been something other than cameras and radio receivers. A half ton of high explosives on a guided path sneaking by NORAD detection would have been more than just embarrassing. A nuclear weapon at 60,000 feet could produce an EMP that was "lights out" for a good sized chunk of the USA. That's the kind of thing running through the minds at the Pentagon right now.

I want NORAD to "freak out" over this so I don't have to. This is fascinating to watch and I have considerable confidence that the Pentagon is going to make it very difficult for China to repeat this stunt. The odds are slim but the consequences are high so the Pentagon is going to keep "freaking out" until they believe they closed the hole in their defenses.

Should the public worry about these balloons? Probably not. Will the Pentagon worry about this? Very much so, because that's what the taxpayers pay them to do. Should the Pentagon worry about Chinese balloons over the USA? We don't know enough yet to determine that.

 

Are F-22 Raptors attempting to shoot down 6 pound balloons? I suspect not. Those Sidewinder missiles are good but can they hit a target the size of a lunchbox? I don't know how big the other balloons were but the first balloon was described as the size of three school buses. That's no weather balloon, or at least not the typical weather balloon.

If China was launching 6 pound balloons with a cell phone and a GoPro camera then I doubt there would be much fanfare about it. The "big deal" about the balloons in the news was that people were spotting balloons, or at least the first balloon, from the ground. That's not something the size of a lunchbox, perhaps it could be if people were using a decent sized amateur telescope and knew where to look. But if they were that small then they'd be just another of 98 other balloons like it.

I'll say again that I have confidence that the USAF is on the ball and will prevent a repeat of this stunt by China.

There's little doubt that China was testing our defenses and reaction. The secondary mission was to get a close look at some military bases. The claim is that the balloon was not likely to see anything more than a satellite could. So why send a balloon? Perhaps because China is having trouble with their satellites right now. This is all speculation, and it is fascinating to speculate about this. Once the novelty wears off then this is likely to be largely forgotten. Until it is out of the news then we can all have a little fun discussing things like what it would be like to see an A-10 zoom over Michigan to punch holes into a helium balloon with its tank-buster cannon.

 

Because it's cheap. China was able to pull our chain and cause all manner of consternation for virtually no money.

Tim

 

Clearly this was a relatively inexpensive stunt to pull off but why "pull our chain"? Why now? Also consider that this balloon made Canada unhappy, and China almost certainly sent similar balloons over South American nations and made them equally unhappy. The USA could stay out of this and let Canada and a half dozen or so South American nations go up against the Chinese Communists.

China may have a very large military but their balloons flying all over the world likely soured what was already less than friendly relations with a lot of nations. If the USA stays out of this fight then China may still have a serious problem going up against a dozen or so nations across North and South America, and perhaps a few more nations in the Pacific, that felt China crossed a line.

I don't know if there is the political will in the USA to do much about Chinese Communist aggressions, but it wasn't just the USA that China flew balloons over to take photos and listen in on radio traffic. The USA might never fire a shot against China but the USA is the lead on the F-35 program. The F-35B can take off from amphibious assault ships and the "light" aircraft carriers that many of these nations possess. Perhaps they could see their orders for F-35B airframes bumped up on the shipping priority, perhaps going so far as to "borrow" a few from the US Marine Corps that had already shipped. But then would they need the F-35B? These nations have some pretty impressive gear right now.

It would be interesting to know what ideas are going through those Communist heads right now.

 

No idea what gun options they have. With Phalanx we had no choice but DU, Funny thing is my ship was one of the first to get it and first time we test fired it a bunch of us were on the signal bridge. Clouds just blasted past us. Soon after they would not let anyone on deck during firing.

 

Just watch media or congress. Should give you an idea what's in their heads.

 

Because they enjoy it. China hates our guts. They know they can do anything they want, and no one will do anything about it because they're afraid (rightfully so) of going to war with China. They love watching us stomp around acting like tough guys while at the same time we rush to Walmart to buy Chinese skivvies and cookware. Oh, we might persuade the UN to send them a stern letter. To be fair, I expect we do things like this to our enemies, too.

Tim

 

https://www.rtl-sdr.com/the-us-airf...wn-an-amateur-radio-pico-balloon-over-canada/

 

"Sir/Madam,
I have the honour to draw your attention to Google, Inc. "Project Loon", which aims to employ unmanned free balloons at hight altitude..."
Think I'm making this up ? If there's a buck to be made, some a**wipe will think of a more complicated way.
Google [Alphabet]'s only motivation is "To serve Mankind."
HonK ! HonK !

https://www.icao.int/SAM/Documents/2018-GREPECAS18/GRP18_WP20 CANSO.pdf

73

 

There's been some discussion on this over the past week or two but now there's a lot of news items about the possibility of a pico' hobby balloon

https://www.rtl-sdr.com/the-us-airf...wn-an-amateur-radio-pico-balloon-over-canada/

 

I say, no way.

Aircraft radar could never pick that little balloon up and it's very unlikely that a pilot could even get a visual on it. I don't think an AWACs radar or ground radar could either. Nor would an AIM 9 missile be able to lock onto it or hit it. The sidewinder missile is heat seeking, and there isn't enough/any heat for the missile to lock onto to.

Radar is pretty sophisticated these days, but not that sophisticated.

 

https://texags.com/forums/16/topics/3361953