Yahoo Hosts Anti-HOA Group

Discussion in 'Amateur Radio News' started by Guest, Nov 17, 2002.

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  1. N2EY

    N2EY Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    Here's an analogy to the whole HOA/CC&R situation:

    Imagine you go shopping for a new car or truck. You find a make and model that is right for your needs, but in the fine print you discover restrictions on what you can do with the car. Some of the restrictions don't bother you (such as not using the car for illegal purposes) but others are troublesome (no use of parts other than new ones made by the manufacturer) and others are downright intrusive (no bumper stickers, no installation of aftermarket sound systems, you are required to wash the car at least once every 30 days). These restrictions do not address safety, economy or pollution issues, just things the manufacturer doesn't want you to do with the car.

    The reason given for these restrictions is that the manufacturer feels that the image of their product is damaged by owners who don't take "proper care" of their cars, so they build in the restrictions.

    And it turns out that these restrictions are for the life of the car, not just the warranty period, and you have to pass them on to the next owner of the car.  If you break any of the restrictions, the manufacturer can sue you or even repossess the car.

    Of course, you immediately stomp out of the dealership and go elsewhere. But then you discover that almost all of the cars you can afford and that meet your needs have similar restrictions. The only way out of the restrictions is to buy an older used model, or one of the few makes that are not restricted. What do you do?

    The above is pretty close to the situation in many parts of the country, except the product is housing rather than vehicles.


    Ownership of property doesn't mean you can do anything you want with it, regardless of the effect on others. It's unreasonable for somebody in a development of quarter-acre lots to raise horses, fr'instance. But the proper venue for such restrictions is The Law, in the form of zoning, building codes, and various ordinances - all of which are changeable by the governed, and restricted by state and federal constitutions. HOAs and CC&Rs use The Law to enforce things that could not be made into laws.  That's just not right.

    73 de Jim, N2EY
  2. KB8ZUZ

    KB8ZUZ Ham Member QRZ Page

  3. W9WHE

    W9WHE Ham Member QRZ Page

    KB8ZUZ graciously provides yet another example of why legal advice should come from lawyers, and not electronic BBS!
  4. KB6SSN

    KB6SSN Ham Member QRZ Page

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (W9WHE @ Nov. 26 2002,15:08)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">KB8ZUZ graciously provides yet another example of why legal advice should come from lawyers, and not electronic BBS![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    As you have provided an example of why most folks think that Lawyers make good objects for target practice. The whole thing is just some contrived mental masturbation devised by Lawyers to make themselves feel important. There is only ONE law on Private Property! That's the one that is enforced by the Property Owner with a gun in his hand!
  5. W4THM

    W4THM Ham Member QRZ Page

    HOA? just say no....

    when house shopping just say no...
    tell the salesmen "i refuse to live under communism and silver knight hair tonic wearing self apointed condo commandos!"

    works for me.

    i dont live in in a condo commando zone but did have a problem with a neighbor thats a county employee and kept enforcing his taste on my house. one thing the county or hoa cant do (or havent thought of) is to tell you what color to paint your vehicle. heres how i fixed the busy body neighbor... hehehe

    he was bent out of shape for a good week. he sent his kid over to ask why my jeep was painted like that and i explained that "someone" kept calling the county on my house and if they did it again the rest of the cars would get it as well as the house. i havent been bothered since.

    i win!

  6. WB9OMC

    WB9OMC Ham Member QRZ Page

    From the perspective of Amateur Radio, it is pretty much "an antenna thing",
    pure and simple.  A slightly deeper way of looking at it is "what the heck right
    do THEY have denying me the ability to do what my FEDERALLY ISSUED
    license specifically tells me I am able and qaulified to do?".

    The FCC Pre-empted CC&R's, BTW, for what are known as OTARDs (Over
    The Air Reception Devices) but refuses (so far) to do this for Amateur Radio.
    House Bill HR4720, while a dead issue for now, aims to remedy that situation.

    I have a website with an idea at http ://  that you guys
    might want to look at for some links and commentary.  I will apologize in
    advance for the rather sparseness of things but  I cannot change this CC&R
    situation for hams by myself, and in spite of nearly 2500 visits to my website,
    I have very VERY few takers on starting up the grassroots organization I
    wanted to start to fight to take back a right which I claim is legitimately ours.

    Lots of hams TALK up a good line about fighting CC&Rs, but the problem is that
    very few of them are willing actually DO anything about it.  The ideas I put on
    that website are there, waiting for the right hams to come along and say,
    "OK, count me in!"  You'd think out of nearly 700,000 US hams I'd find a few.
    Guess again.  

    I'm an Amateur Extra Class license holder.  WAAAAY back when I was first
    getting my Novice ticket back in 1974, one of the Extras teaching the class
    told me "always remember that the *E* in Extra stands for Elmer".  His point
    being, that those of us who have been in this hobby long enough have a
    debt and a responsibility to pay back what we have learned to new generations
    of hams.  WE EXTRA CLASS HAMS are supposed to be the leaders, not the
    couch potatoes, retreating into our little enclaves of "Extras only" spectrum
    and letting the rest go to hell.  If those of us who are supposed to be the
    leaders do not lead, no-one will *follow* and our wonderful hobby deteriorates
    more than it already has.

    This movement is one way for me to Elmer, and pay back, or as I think it was
    maybe Rich Moseson in CQ (hope I don't misattribute this to the wrong author)
    said, "pay it forward".  In short, to  motivate newer hams to understand what
    they stand to lose if they fail to act to protect what they have left.

    I'm a Life Member of both 10-10 Int. and QCWA.  I sit on the Board of Directors
    of NoCode International and also on the Advisory Board at  I GIVE A

    I am glad to see you guys talking about Homeowners Associations and CC&Rs.
    That's where learning about the problem begins.  That's where spreading the
    word begins.  How many will stand up and actually ACT?

    "Antennas UP!", the organization that my website wants to start, has great
    potential to organize, inform, and maybe just slightly inflame some couch-potato
    hams to get off their butts and and start actively defending this hobby.  PLEASE -
    go read the site, and then tell all your ham friends......people you QSO with.....
    write it on your outgoing QSL cards........there is no time like the present to
    organize for our own defense while the topic is hot.  

    What's at stake?  Our ability to provide first class public service communications,
    that's what - and frankly, if you read 47 CFR 97.1 like you're supposed to, you
    know that THAT is a cornerstone of why Amateur Radio exists in the US.  Why
    we have access to the spectrum.  But you can't very well do it without antennas,
    can you?

    C'mon people - let's get something started.  Go visit and
    THINK about what you read there.  Get active. GET INVOLVED.  "Pay it forward"
    by leaving a legacy of "antenna rights" not just for yourselves but for future hams.

    Duane Mantick
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