Yahoo Hosts Anti-HOA Group

Discussion in 'Amateur Radio News' started by Guest, Nov 17, 2002.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
ad: L-HROutlet
ad: l-rl
ad: Subscribe
ad: Left-2
ad: Left-3
ad: L-MFJ
ad: MessiPaoloni-1
  1. wb6bcn

    wb6bcn Ham Member QRZ Page

    Yes:  I took a brief look at the Yahoo site.
    Antennae aren't the only issues covered by CC&R's. Some of the rules make no sence.
     
    A friend bought a house in town. He didn't read all the fine print.  It seems there was a clause that the city fathers had the right to look at the color schemes in various nieghborhoods, and if they got tired of the particular colors they had the right to dictate a change.  He had to have his house repainted several times because they got tired of the previous colors.

    I was going to buy some acreage a number of years ago. One of the questions I ask was if I could sink a well on the property to irrigate. They said I could,  but since it was in the water district it would have to be metered, and I would have to pay the water district for water taken from my well.
    One of the reasons I had for looking at acreage was the intent to have an orchard and a garden. In this area of the world that means irrigation.

    CC&R's don't always affect the just city dweller.  Sometimes they can get to the semi-rural and rural areas as well. This holds true whenever some politician figures a way to raid your wallet,  and it goes uncontested. [​IMG]
    Doug Flory
    WB6BCN
     
  2. W5CGH

    W5CGH Guest

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kd5scg @ Nov. 17 2002,20:43)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">What happens to you if you break the HOA rules[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    In the State of Texas, they can, and sometimes WILL, foreclose on your house. Cities like these things because THEY don't have to enforce anything.

    Brad, W5CGH
     
  3. W9WHE

    W9WHE Ham Member QRZ Page

    KZ4EJF says:

    "Thanks to the "New Deal", Trading with the Enemy Act, 1933, and the Uniform Commercial Code (UCC), the county clerks have been instructed since that time to never divulge the history of 'absolute ownership' via alloidal land title to anyone. Now, most of them have never heard of it, as well as many veteran surveyors.
    Alloidal land title = no taxes. You own it, lock stock and barrel - forever"

    HELLO..... what planet do you live on? FLASH....this is earth in 2002!

    The Uniform Commercial Code (UCC) deals with the sale of goods....NOT LAND!!!! The UCC has abosolutly NOTHING to do with land.

    The title of which you speak was referred to as Fee tail (Male, female, etc.) and IS NOT recognized in this country. It was popular in England hundreds of years ago, but not here in the USA. Even in England, such land was subject to taxes.

    There is NO TITLE making the holder free of taxes. None. Never has been. You cannot take title in any form which protects you from taxes, never has been.

    The fact is, you cannot take title from a seller which is GREATER than the seller got when he bought the property. If the seller did not have a title free of all restrictions, he certainly cannot deliver title to something he did not have. So whether the seller gives you a deed marked Alloidal, Colloidal, or even Super-duper-oidal, you cannot buy more property rights from the seller then the seller had in the first place. No private property owner can avoid property taxes, save the legitimate 501&copy; non-profit corporation.

    What you refer to is the "secret" codicile of the U.S. constitution that permits revisionists to spout utter giberish without knowing what the heck they are talking about. That same "secret" codicil also allows you to avoid income taxes if you just refuse to recognize Article I, Section 8, of the US constitution which gives Congress "the power to lay and collect taxes".

    As for the county clerks, they just record whatever title is presented to them in return for a filing/recording fee. They are not sworn to never reveal some super secret form of title twhat would wash away liabillity for taxes, covenants and restrictions, and enable you to avoid state and federal ltaxes and laws. You could record an Alloidal, Colloidal or even Super-duper-oidal title, they could care less! Heck, you could even form your own country and be your own King! The County clerks don't give advice. The state legislature is who creates forms of title. ie Joint Tenancy, Tenancy by the Entitety, Tennants in common, etc, etc. The County clerks have NO SAY.


    BEWARE......BEWARE....BEWARE....BEWARE.....

    of the quality of advice/information you get on electronic bulliten boards...it is worth EXACTLY what you pay for it!
     
  4. N3KIP

    N3KIP Ham Member QRZ Page

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (W9WHE @ Nov. 19 2002,10:00)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The Uniform Commercial Code (UCC) deals with the sale of goods....NOT LAND!!!! The UCC has abosolutly NOTHING to do with land.

    The title of which you speak was referred to as Fee tail (Male, female, etc.) and IS NOT recognized in this country. It was popular in England hundreds of years ago, but not here in the USA. Even in England, such land was subject to taxes.

    There is NO TITLE making the holder free of taxes. None. Never has been. You cannot take title in any form which protects you from taxes, never has been.

    The fact is, you cannot take title from a seller which is GREATER than the seller got when he bought the property. If the seller did not have a title free of all restrictions, he certainly cannot deliver title to something he did not have. So whether the seller gives you a deed marked Alloidal, Colloidal, or even Super-duper-oidal, you cannot buy more property rights from the seller then the seller had in the first place. No private property owner can avoid property taxes, save the legitimate 501© non-profit corporation.

    What you refer to is the "secret" codicile of the U.S. constitution that permits revisionists to spout utter giberish without knowing what the heck they are talking about. That same "secret" codicil also allows you to avoid income taxes if you just refuse to recognize Article I, Section 8, of the US constitution which gives Congress "the power to lay and collect taxes".

    As for the county clerks, they just record whatever title is presented to them in return for a filing/recording fee. They are not sworn to never reveal some super secret form of title twhat would wash away liabillity for taxes, covenants and restrictions, and enable you to avoid state and federal ltaxes and laws. You could record an Alloidal, Colloidal or even Super-duper-oidal title, they could care less! Heck, you could even form your own country and be your own King! The County clerks don't give advice. The state legislature is who creates forms of title. ie Joint Tenancy, Tenancy by the Entitety, Tennants in common, etc, etc. The County clerks have NO SAY.


    BEWARE......BEWARE....BEWARE....BEWARE.....

    of the quality of advice/information you get on electronic bulliten boards...it is worth EXACTLY what you pay for it![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Fee tail was later abolished in England too, and I'm not really certain if that actually was what the previous poster meant, anyway.

    I'm not a lawyer, but I have read enough law to understand what the issues are:

    1) People are bound by CC&Rs, even though they have little choice of covenant-free housing. This seriously needs to be changed.

    I live just outside a city where every house is restricted this way. I wish there were more hams in the locality, but I know it won't happen. I wouldn't want to live there either. Ironically, I bought a house that isn't in a subdivision mainly to get a single-storey home for the benefit of my XYL.

    2) HOAs act as mini-governments, without any of the responsibility. This is wrong.

    N3KIP
     
  5. W9WHE

    W9WHE Ham Member QRZ Page

    Nope. Sorry. Wrong.
    Selective enforcement arguments rarely work against PRIVATE entities. While such an argument (called "equal protection" under the 14th amendment to the U.S. constitution) might work against the GOVERNMENT, its generally a lousy argument to make as a defense to a PRIVATE action brought by a PRIVATE HOA. Why? Primaraly because the PRIVATE HOA is unlikely to have equal protection requirements under the HOA bylaws. The Government is stuck with the 14th Amendment to the U.S. constitution.

    While such an argument MIGHT work if you could argue that the HOA was not enforcing the rules against another, VERY SIMILAR antenna installation, it would likely fail if the best you can do is whine that the HOA doesn't enforce rules reguarding garbage cans, dogs, and loud radios.

    Like it or not, HOA rules are generally enforcable in court, even if you don't like them or claim "but I didn't know". Moreover, the reasonable attorney fees and expenses a HOA incurs in SUCCESSFULLY enforcing a provision are, under many HOA bylaws, to be paid by the loosing homeowner! And if you, as a looser don't pay, the unpaid fees and costs become a lein on your property. So what? Well, sooner or later you will sell, and the leinholder will get paid before you do, and MAY also get interest!!!

    All of which is a darn good reason to GET YOUR ADVICE FROM A LAWYER, not an electronic BBS!
     
  6. W4AWM

    W4AWM Ham Member QRZ Page

    When you go to buy property or a house, ask for and read the covenants carefully, then read them again. If there are none, you are probably ok. Also check State, city, county, township and other local restrictions. Then for protection, insert this wording ao something similar into the contract and have ALL parties initial it: " Seller and agent represent that there are no restrictions, covenants or regulations past or presently proposed or in effect which would in any way restrict my right to erect any antenna(s), supporting structure(s) or ancellary equipment which would prevent the enjoyment of my hobby of amateur radio. If any such restrictions, covenants or regulations are found during or after these proceedings, the sale of the above described property becomes null and voit and all funds, earnest monies and expences will immediately be refunded to the buyer(s)."
    If anyone refuses to initial this, RUN, DON'T WALK! Be sure you tell them why they lost the sale.

    In the case of a new homeowners association or unenforced rules that suddenly rear their heads, most courts hold that if a rule has not been enforced for a year, it becomes unenforceable.

    The onas is on the purchaser, however. If you buy and then findout that there are restrictions, you have made your bed and you will have to lie in it.

    73, John, W4AWM
     
  7. KV4PD

    KV4PD Ham Member QRZ Page

    The BLM (Bureau of Land Management) did indeed issue land patents in this country and the recipients were not required to pay taxes on the real estate. The land patents were not transferrable and were immune to 'emminent domain' clauses. The Hughes Corporation, under the protection of a land patent, forced the State of California to abandon their interstate highway project planned for construction through the middle of a parcel owned lock, stock and barrel by the Hughes Aircraft Corporation.

    Under the present system of feudal warranty deeds issued by the local county, no man owns property. It is an illusion, as is the illusion that the federal government is barred from property ownership by the provisions in the Constitution.

    The private ownership illusion quickly dissipates when the cessation of tax to the state begins.
     
  8. W9WHE

    W9WHE Ham Member QRZ Page

    KZ4EJF once again demonstrates the dangers of getting your advice from an electronic BBS and writes:

    "Under the present system of feudal warranty deeds issued by the local county, no man owns property".
    Nope. Sorry, wrong again!

    FIRST: The county DOES NOT issue warranty deeds. A warranty deed is prepaired by and given BY THE SELLER to the  buyer, "warranting" good title transfer from seller to buyer.  

    SECOND: The county merely "records" the deed given by the seller to the buyer in the public record to alert everyone that the property has changed hands. That way, title searches of the public records will reflect true ownership. Title vests in whomever the seller names in the deed, whether it be a Warranty, Quit-claim, or even Super-duper alloidal deed!

    Once again, get your legal advice from a lawyer, not an electronic BBS!
     
  9. W9WHE

    W9WHE Ham Member QRZ Page

    W4AWM writes:

    "In the case of a new homeowners association or unenforced rules that suddenly rear their heads, most courts hold that if a rule has not been enforced for a year, it becomes unenforceable".

    I would love to see such a holding by a court. Do you have a citation to a state reporter for this? Unfortunately, I have never seen any court make any such holding.

    Which courts do you refer to? What state? When? Your statement runs completely counter to every decision I have ever seen. I'm hoping you know what you are talking about, because I sure would like to read such as case!
     
  10. K4VIC

    K4VIC Guest

    Beware of this...One of the lastest tricks of HOA's in older neighborhoods is to have them declared a "historical district". This happened to me last year. Now I supposedly cannot even change the color or shingle style of my roof without their approval much less put up further towers or antennas. As approved by the city council "no substancial change" may be made to the property without the permission of the "historic district's architechical committee", who by the way charges a fee for their review.

    Well, I've lived on/owned this property for over 50 years. I intend to do what I d--- well please and that includes my amateur radio activity. If its a fight they want, a fight they'll get!  Thanks for allowing me to "rant"

    73, Vic  K4VIC
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page