Yaesu's "overlooked" Dayton introduction - the FT-1D

Discussion in 'Amateur Radio News' started by N8MSA, May 25, 2012.

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  1. N4BCD

    N4BCD Ham Member QRZ Page

    The Yaesu booth had TOO MUCH going on at Dayton this year. After lusting over FT-3000 & the Hooter's Girl, I forgot all about digital radio :)
    [​IMG]
     
  2. NC9Z

    NC9Z Ham Member QRZ Page

    Overlooked? No. Let down? Yes.

    D-Star and P25 have substantial infrastructure already in place, and P25 is doing it without any direct ham market support from the manufacturers. iDen/Nexedge has a presence but still not as strong yet, same for Mototrbo. Backing any of those would have been leaps and bounds improvement if the mobiles and repeaters promised has also been released, but alas the full line support of models planned to be there weren't and nobody can see any hint of being this compatible with anything already out there. There was a ton of buzz and many months of lead up (I believe it was still last summer when the first youtube videos from Japan were leaked, then fall when Yaesu updated their website), people went to Dayton with the hopes of seeing where the support was gathered, and with /\/\ and Yaesu being what it is, there was much hope for the largely popular P25 to show up, and instead the market for those looking to use digital is further diluted; yes there are some that will try out the different modes just to learn a new mode, but digital radios aren't cheap so maintaining 5 digital modes simply isn't an option for most.
     
  3. KC7YRA

    KC7YRA Ham Member Volunteer Moderator QRZ Page

    Looking over the flyer at Dayton, I also saw the C4FM designator.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that the standard P25 designator?

    As for the radio, I was bummed. I was wanting a Trbo compatible rig. I would not be surprised if this radio is a P25 rig but somehow crippled so it does not actually work on P25 but instead on some #######ized subset.

    I personally think this critter will see very few sales. Like the Alinco DJ series digital board of yesteryear.

    Brad
     
  4. NC9Z

    NC9Z Ham Member QRZ Page

    In simplest terms, it is my understanding that all P25 (well phase one at least I'm behind on the technical side of phase II) is C4FM modulation, not all C4FM modulation is P25, needless to say the C4FM did lead to hope and hype of possible P25, but as it would seem that is not the case based on what people were reporting from Dayton, and nowhere does Yaesu mention P25 in any of their new digital ham radio literature.
     
  5. VA3TSE

    VA3TSE Ham Member QRZ Page

    "Back in the days" when i wasn't even licensed (or born...), the real old men tell me it was the amateurs that made the standard, and then mfg. jumped aboard because the amateurs demanded the stuff. Think SSB. Nowadays, they try to peddle the old wine in new skins to checkbook amateurs. Yayhoo have been very active in that area. In my opinion they had better see that they get a proper representation in europe for example, as long as they don't bear a proper address and serious dealerships with worldwide service, they ain't getting the best of my checkbook no more. Then adhere to the very few free and open standards - make the stuff usable with aprs, packet, pocsag. Tehn, building a camera into an HT mic, but equipping the rig with orange-black brick pixel display that cannot show the pic? Guess there's a reason why marketing tries to hide the stuff from public.
     
  6. N8MSA

    N8MSA Ham Member QRZ Page

    Well put. C4FM is a modulation scheme, and not the digital protocol itself. I have the pamphlet in front of me right now, and spoke to two different Yaesu booth staffers, and I still have no idea what the protocol is.

    As a businessman, I understand the need to differentiate brands, and specific products, from the competition. I'm not sure this is the best way of achieving that goal. Assuming that this contains neither D-Star or TRBO, I would have preferred that Yaesu would have selected an established protocol and then positioned it's digital products on basis of well-known brand values.
     
  7. WA3VJB

    WA3VJB Ham Member QRZ Page

    That's the money question, thank you.

    As for a "standard," since when is the radio hobby homogenized in the first place? Let the best type "win," popular acceptance, even if it takes a while.

    But, as the questioner points out, the category of digital communications, especially on HF, has yet to really find widespread support. It's somewhat like AM Stereo, and Hybrid Digital the industry tried to establish for the broadcast band. Both failed, not because of technical shortcomings, but because listeners / users didn't see the need.

    I suspect that's what will happen to "digital" comms among licensed radio hobbyists. A few niche areas of activity, among subsets of enthusiasts. And that's fine, because the hobby is not and should never be homogenized, either by regulation, by the League's internal agenda, nor by marketing fiat.
     
  8. W5FN

    W5FN Guest

    Personally, I would have liked to see a P25 radio from them, having a mixed-mode repeater here.

    However, not knowing all of the prior Motorola/Vertex agreements, there may have been something in the separation papers that said something like Yaesu cannot make a P25 compatible amateur radio product. Probably Mot doesn't want a glut of cheap P25 products coming on the market (like the Chinese inexpensive handhelds that are 'certified' for commercial use).

    Why not Dstar? Something I learned a long time ago... NIH! (not invented here). Like the guy above said, 'if it's not ours, it's nothing'. (paraphrased).

    The future for the 1D? Icom has really been pushing Dstar pretty hard, and although there are centers of interest, I wouldn't say that it's a real moneymaker for Icom. Yaesu will have a rough road, even if they come out with an entire line of handhelds, mobiles & repeaters.

    Tim W5FN
     
  9. KB3MXM

    KB3MXM Ham Member QRZ Page

    Avery interesting mixture of technologies, with these options, it will be an experimenter's playground to integrate with various other Amateur Radio technologies.
     
  10. K7CB

    K7CB XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    I agree - Yaesu's FT-1D wasn't overlooked at all. There just isn't a lot of excitement over it. Yaesu has provided little to no information about what their plans are as far as infrastructure (repeaters) is concerned. Earlier this year, they mentioned introducing an HT and a mobile. So far, all we've seen is the HT. Not real useful without a repeater to work through. While D-Star is far from perfect, Icom already has substantial lead in market penetration. Icom, in my opinion, pushed the idea of D-Star better than Yaesu is doing now. When D-Star hit the U.S., both the radios and the repeaters were available for purchase. Lately, Icom has also done a lot to get repeaters installed by refunding the purchase price if it was installed within a certain period of time and had 10 or more registered users. Still, it has taken five years to get to where they are today. So, even if Yaesu's system is better, I think they're going to have a hard time selling this. IMO, they should have had all the key components available before bringing it to market.
     
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