WWV & WWVH to get the axe

Discussion in 'Amplitude Modulation' started by W7TFO, Aug 14, 2018.

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  1. K4KYV

    K4KYV Premium Subscriber Volunteer Moderator QRZ Page

    Inevitably, some hams will be all for shutting down WWV/WWVH, just as some hams defend HOA antenna prohibitions and some defend the proposed FAA 50-ft tower tower lighting/painting requirements.
    N2EY likes this.
  2. N2EY

    N2EY Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    I would.
  3. N2EY

    N2EY Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    Yep. In fact you can find hams who will defend almost anything.

    Remember back about a dozen years ago, when NCVEC proposed the "Communicator" license class to FCC? Part of the proposal was that Communicators could ONLY use approved gear that had no voltages greater than 30 volts present - and a bunch of other restrictions. And there were hams who were FOR that!

    73 de Jim, N2EY
  4. SM0AOM

    SM0AOM Ham Member QRZ Page

    MSF on HF closed one or two decades ago.

    The only remaining HF services with any coverage to speak about are
    RWM that transmits on 4996,9996 and 14996 kHz from a location outside Moscow.

    The practical use for HF based time and frequency standards are miniscule in our part of the world, and no fielded system that I know of is reliant on HF time-keeping.

    Time is distributed by very resilient and robust network facilities, and
    decentralised time-keeping systems are designed to uphold the essential network synchronisms.

    Here in Sweden, time is kept both through the national time and frequency standard, which is a cluster of cesium and hydrogen MASER standards, and also by a decentralised system operated by the Post and Telecom Agency having currently five nodes that are EMP hardened.

    The national time standard is a part of the BIPM international time network and contributes to the determination of the TAI time-scale.

    Independent metrology labs and telecom network operators usually operate their own cesium frequency standards, and most military systems that need precision time use rubidium standards that in some cases are GPS disciplined.

    Before GPS became established, Loran-C was commonly used as a "sanity check" and for time transfer purposes.

  5. N1OOQ

    N1OOQ Ham Member QRZ Page

    5 Tomahawk missiles would pay for the whole thing. Our last use of them would have funded 20 years of WWV, assuming the same expenditure per year.
  6. W8KHK

    W8KHK Ham Member QRZ Page

    My first response to this issue was subjective.... They wouldn't dare decommission these resources. Of course I signed the petition without delay. But then, after reading many of the comments, I started to look at it more objectively. Yes, it has been available to me since I was a kid, we could always count on it being there. But is it really necessary? Certainly we do not "NEED" the time service, as there are so many other ways to synchronize our devices and activities. Cellphones, computers, GPS, etc.

    But what about frequency standard and calibration? Yes, I would miss that, but there is a rather inexpensive alternative. The GPSDO. GPS Disciplined Oscillators can be built for under $100.00, or purchased for between $100.00 and $200.00 for very capable devices. It is true that lab-grade units can cost in the thousands, but after a quick look on the bay I have no problem making the purchase, should WWV go away.

    Another alternative is CHU, or possibly broadcast stations. I have not seen any mention by the many CEs here how they would ensure their BC stations were in compliance should WWV disappear. Perhaps they will just use the GPSDO as well?

    I am not aware of the direct link used to maintain and adjust the accuracy of the GPS satellites, but I assume that WWV and WWVH in Fort Collins and Hawaii are likely not involved, as the master clocks NIST maintains are in Boulder, Colorado. I see no mention in the budget proposal regarding the shutdown of resources at this location.

    The thought that maintaining the existing resources could prove problematic in the near future is sobering, considering the age of the technology, availability of components, and qualified personnel moving on. Yes, I guess a decision must be made whether to continue providing the service or proceed with decommission. My only hope is that decision is made by qualified individuals based upon sound engineering facts, and not by the bean counters with a political agenda.
    K4KYV and AC0OB like this.
  7. K5UJ

    K5UJ Ham Member QRZ Page

    You can use modern technology as an argument to shut down all kinds of services but that doesn't mean it should be done. "Modern technology allows us to...." has led to all kinds of bad design and things that are at best a mixed blessing. One example I can think of immediately is modern car radios (or whatever is in new cars now) that have only bubble switch push buttons. You have to take your eyes off the road to use them whereas before when it was knobs, you could operate by feel and keep looking ahead.

    But back to WWV: People can argue that OTA TV should all be shut down because of cable, satellite DTV and so on. But I'm happy to use free OTA TV. I'm also happy to have the current HF WWV because it's free and easy. All the other stuff like GPS solutions involve an outlay of money. What is so awful about having something for which I need only spin a shortwave rx dial to use? Oh but it's so antiquated, so ooooold technology, so primitive. I'm all for new stuff when it makes sense. But when something established works well for me, I see no reason to change it. But as part of the mindless stampede to everything digital, and away from anything analog regardless of how well it works, WWV will probably bite the dust sooner or later.
    N1OOQ and AC0OB like this.
  8. N2DTS

    N2DTS Ham Member QRZ Page

    We are a poor country and can no longer afford luxuries like WWV.

    Cant we just use the Canadian station?
  9. AE8W

    AE8W Ham Member QRZ Page

    K5UJ & N2DTS ... having a difficult time understanding the topic??? Your local TV station is *not* government funded. Local advertisement pays for local TV. Which does suggest that if there are few viewers then c'est la vie. It is still all about economics as in the free enterprise system.
  10. KA2RRK

    KA2RRK Platinum Subscriber Platinum Subscriber QRZ Page

    Time is a needless limitation, anyways!
    While we're at it let's get rid of Time zones !


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