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Wide Bandwidth Digital Danger

Discussion in 'Ham Radio Discussions' started by W6EM, Dec 25, 2018.

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  1. N1FM

    N1FM Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    Sailors; Winlink et al; ARSFI; 'eMail-Over-the-Air'; Emcom; ARRL; and NPRM (Docket No. 16-239)

    There were between 11,000 and 12,000 messages sent, per month, in November and December.

    https://winlink.org/SystemTraffic

    Current bandwidth per message is under 300 Baud, but ARRL proposes to increase that to 2.8 kHz.

    So, instead of 300 Baud, you'd potentially have 12,000 messages per month, sent at 2.8kHz.

    More width = more space taken by email for sailors?
    Increased privileges for Techs = easier access to Winlink freq's?

    ARSFI Board Files FCC Response to Rappaport Campaign

    "The proposal would eliminate the current 300 baud limit on HF digital transmissions. The original ARRL proposal would replace it with a 2.8 kHz bandwidth limitation. We're in favor of the NPRM plus the ARRL's bandwidth limit (for now, please read our paper) for many reasons, mostly because the advancement of the radio art is impeded without it, but for most Winlink stakeholders it will allow Pactor 4--finally--in the USA. New, faster and better protocols will be close behind."

    "You can download and read the letter we wrote to FCC Chairman Ajit Pai, our response paper, and Rappaport's two recent letters to the FCC. Make your own decision, but make it an informed decision!"

    "If you have a stake in this, we urge you to please immediately file a comment on the ECFS. It's easy: Click here. Time is of the essence. You don't have to write a masterpiece. An 'express' comment that endorses the ARSFI filing is all that's needed."

    "Also, spread the word. Send a link to this page to all you know who care, especially those you know in leadership positions with emergency management or government agencies, the ARRL, and organizations and agencies that have a stake in Winlink. Let them know, and ask them to take a few moments to put their opinion on the record, or simply say you agree with us with a reference to our filing."

    The ARSFI Board of Directors
    Winlink Development Team

    https://winlink.org/FCC_Action

    If you use Winlink email, or correspond regularly with someone who does, please donate to ARSFI.

    "By giving $25 each year you will do your part to keep this important system running. Donations are tax-deductible by US federal taxpayers."

    Copyright © 2006-2018, Amateur Radio Safety Foundation, Inc.

    https://www.arsfi.org/links.aspx

    SailMail: "The current membership assessment is $275 per vessel, per year."

    https://sailmail.com/cost-and-application-process/

    WINLINK: YOUR ARRL ENDORSED ALTERNATIVE TO SAILMAIL @ $275 PER YR, PER VESSEL
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2018
    NL7W likes this.
  2. N3HGB

    N3HGB Ham Member QRZ Page

    Wow - ham radio about to taken over by sailors. This is ever MORE of a ROFLMAO deal than terrorists running around with HF rigs :rolleyes:
    There was a time when sailors were very interested in ham radio. That time is in the past. Three things changed all this:
    1. Mostly dead HF propagation
    2. Cheap satellite text message devices
    3. The pain of dealing with hams that clearly loathe anyone with a boat for some reason

    On the various sailing forums we get a lot of "I don't need a SSB anymore do I?" and one guy offered to give his Icom gear away for free to anyone that would come get it. So no, sailors aren't going to take over HF and ruin the colostomy net or the gallbladder round table :rolleyes:
    BTW - Why do hams put up big towers and ruin the view. Anyone that can afford a house with a yard clearly can afford phone and internet service. What is wrong with them?
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  3. W3WN

    W3WN Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    Of the 14 VEC's, which one is that?

    I'm looking at the list of VEC's... http://www.ncvec.org/page.php?id=318 … and all seem to have addresses.
     
    K4AGO and W4JHU like this.
  4. N1FM

    N1FM Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    Komrades: All Progress is Incremental! This proposal is double-plus good (for now)!

    Needed: Control of Occupied Bandwidth

    "Opponents fear incompatibility between wideband protocols in the same band space as very narrow ones.

    This is a justified concern.

    Capping maximum bandwidth for digital modes at 2.8 kHz as the ARRL proposed, is a good temporary measure until rebalancing of the digital band plans can be properly accomplished.

    Conclusion: The Board of Directors of ARSFI strongly supports the removal of the 300 baud limitation on HF data. The change will improve the bands by easing congestion and improving data transfer efficiency. For now and for expediency in the absence of regulating our bands by bandwidth, we also agree with the ARRL and see the need for a 2.8 kHz bandwidth limitation on wide bandwidth digital signals.

    This will alleviate immediate fears about interference and be compatible with the HF emissions in use today, while still encouraging advancement of the radio art. We understand that other changes are needed and must be incremental. This should be considered in a separate NPRM."


    Komrades, be reasonable. Wider is actually narrower. Taking MORE space will ease congestion! The 2.8 kHz proposal will alleviate concerns until a new regulation by bandwidth NPRM can propose even wider bandwidths for Winlink, etc.... We will 'rebalance' later!

    https://winlink.org/sites/default/files/arsfi_comments.pdf
     
    NL7W likes this.
  5. K7JEM

    K7JEM Ham Member QRZ Page

    I, for one, welcome our new Pactor overlords.
     
    W4JHU, NL7W, WZ7U and 1 other person like this.
  6. K0RGR

    K0RGR Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    From the link you provided, the majority of hf WINLINK messages are being done in PACTOR 4. That means a couple things. First, most of the traffic DOES NOT INVOLVE THE FCC, since PACTOR IV is illegal in the U.S. under current rules. So, whatever rules FCC passes, it probably won't change much, because the rest of the world has moved on.

    Second, the bandwidth of PACTOR IV is 2.4 kHz, not 300 Hz. So most WINLINK traffic is already using 2.4 kHz wide data. WINMOR runs at 500 to 1600 Hz width. The new ARDOP mode uses 200 to 2000 Hz widths. PACTOR III, the second most used mode, is also 2.4 kHz wide. So, nobody is currently using a 300 Hz. bandwidth to do WINLINK.

    Most messages are done on VHF PACKET.
     
  7. N1FM

    N1FM Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    Answered here:

    "The proposal would eliminate the current 300 baud limit on HF digital transmissions. The original ARRL proposal would replace it with a 2.8 kHz bandwidth limitation. We're in favor of the NPRM plus the ARRL's bandwidth limit (for now, please read our paper) for many reasons, mostly because the advancement of the radio art is impeded without it, but for most Winlink stakeholders it will allow Pactor 4--finally--in the USA. New, faster and better protocols will be close behind."

    https://winlink.org/FCC_Action
     
  8. K4AGO

    K4AGO Ham Member QRZ Page

    I value your opinion but II cannot agree with your statement. This response is not meant as a put down.

    I'm sorry, but I don't think you understand the definition of encryption. Actually, NONE of the digital modes used in amateur radio are encrypted. Just because you cannot listen to a signal on the air with your ears and understand it's meaning does not mean it is encrypted. There are many no code licensed hams who can listen to a CW signal on the air and not understand its meaning; and CW is not encrypted.

    Encryption involves having public keys and private keys to encrypt and decrypt (a message) data. PSK 31, FT8, JT65, TOR (Pactor, Amtor, Gtor), Packet, RITTY, etc. are not encrypted any more than your voice is encrypted. Encryption has nothing to do with tones as used in many of the amateur digital modes used today.

    Encryption is much to complicated and involved to teach in these forums. And, while I had courses in Grad. school dealing with encryption, I am not qualified to teach it. You may want toGoggle the subject. It will be well worth the time and effort needed to understand it.

    73 John
    K4AGO
     
    W4RAV, W4JHU and NL7W like this.
  9. K0IDT

    K0IDT Ham Member QRZ Page

    It's not in that list. All the VEC's have a mailing address, the floating part is where the tests are given. The FCC list of VEC's doesn't include all of them, only the FCC certified ones. Did you know there are ARRL VEC's all over the world?
    Here's one, ARRL/VEC Yokohama VE Team, in Japan. The one I referenced may have been the one with a Puerto Vallarta MX mailing address, but that doesn't show up in any current lists. That particular VEC catered mostly to cruisers.
     
  10. K0IDT

    K0IDT Ham Member QRZ Page

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