When the Thrill is Gone!!

If you're bored with it, you're more than welcome to ship it to me.

Personally, I like the idea for the same reason I like owning a VHF/UHF HT even though it's limited to 5W; I don't like lugging heavy batteries around. An FT-100 is fine for the car, but it, and its power source, are awfully heavy for a 10 mile hike.

 

I've read this topic with great interest because I am wrestling with whether or not to buy the FT-817.

I am rather alarmed at the RF performance issues raised here - it does sound like connecting it to an amplifier, at least on HF, would be a pretty fast way to become unpopular. (By the way, the 2002 ARRL Handbook has a great looking 40W amp design for HF...). I suppose it wouldn't help to shunt the key leads with capacitors like back in the days of thermionic emissions. I may take a pass until somebody comes up with a fix for that.

I'm much more interested in the receiver than the transmitter on HF. It would be wonderful for tracking down interference in the neighborhood. I could see using this as a packset on VHF and UHF, and it would make a great IF for microwave transverters. But I would like to use it on CW and PSK31 when we're camping.

I also have a 706 MKII, but I've only used it mobile once since I've had it. Since it is my primary HF rig, I'm a little afraid of injuring it. I am planning to buy a new 746 for the home station, and upgrade the 706. Maybe I will be less worried about the 706 getting ripped off that way.

Guess I'll need to consider the other options like
the Elecrafts. You can't run a 706 portable on a lantern battery for very long, and it would be fun to build the kits. Of course, I still have my ancient HW-8 - maybe I'll just resurrect it.

 

>>How well do those 5 watter's get out on 20
meters SSB with a short whip---not too far I would guess.<<

Somebody was sleeping through the chapter on RF power. The other side of that question is "how much better will they do with 100W."  It's not a QRP fad or fanaticism, it's a law of physics.  Increase power from 5W to 100W and your signal will go up a tad over 2 S-points at the other end.  If you're running 100W and the guy gives you an S-9 report, you will drop to S-7 if you reduce power to 5W.  

Besides, if you're looking for effective gain, you COULD always switch to CW and pick up a handy 15-18dB. 5W CW from an 817 or any other radio will beat 100W of SSB anytime.

It's a simple fact that adding power is the least effective way to improve your signal.  If you're disappointed in your results with 5W and a "short whip" you'll get a lot more bang for the buck by improving the antenna rather than increasing power.

>>LIFE IS TOO SHORT FOR QRP-----is a statement that has some truth in it.<<

If there is ANY truth in it (and I don't think there is), there is far more truth in the statement that "Life's too short for $800 finals."

 

Life is too short for QRP?? No I won't bite on that, but if you really believe that, then you have my sincerest sympathy.

No flames, but it seems that you missed the point with the FT-817. I currently have several rigs, including an FT-817, but have never owned an amp. I wouldn't trade mine - until there's a better model available - and that doesn't mean higher power. I will also keep my 100w rigs, of course. They both fit into my enjoyment of the hobby.

I travel quite a bit and carrying a rig is a real pain with customs and airline security. My FT-817, with a paddle, tuner and reel antenna, goes right in the case with my laptop computer and attracts little attention in airports, etc. When I arrive, string up the antenna, plug a couple cables, and I'm on the air, SSB, CW, PSK31.

What do I work? So far I've worked about 30 countries and about 30 states, 90 total QRP QSO's, with my FT-817 since November 2001 from Venezuela. (In comparison, I worked 1680 QSO's 87 countries, 48 states, and on 6 m 127 grid squares with my 100w rigs from here during the last year.) I get some 339 and 449 reports on CW, but that happens with my other rigs, too. I get lots of 559, and better reports on CW, too. Those are on bands from 40 up to 10 meters. And many of the contacts were nice ragchews. I've also handled several minor pileups on 17 and 30 meters with the little rig. If the signal is so bad, how could I attract a pileup?

I managed to work the VP8 DXpedition this last week with the little rig, too. I don't believe the 599 report I got, but he was about 559 here and I got through on the first call. It helped to have caught 'em calling CQ, of course. By the time I had hooked up the antenna to the other rig, it would've been too late to get through with 100w.

BTW, there's very little 2m and 70cm activity down here, so I use it exclusively on HF and 6m. Due to the high QRN levels, I've never made an 80 or 160m contact from here - on any rig.

Antenna? Well I do have a 6 ft homebrew vertical made from a Radio Shack telescoping whip inside the apartment. It works OK on 6 to 20 meters. Usually I use either a 20m dipole strung in the apartment or the Radio Shack reel antenna when I'm on the go, all with a little tuner. Would I like a better antenna? You bet! But that isn't going to happen anytime soon, so I make do.

On PSK the little rig works fine, too. I've experimented with several people on the air and have successfully maintained Q5 ragchew contacts with 1 watt or less on 20m and higher frequencies.

The receiver doesn't work as good as my Drake R8B, but it's passable for listening. It keeps me from carrying a separate SWL rx when I travel. I used to carry a Sangean portable, but the FT-817 is smaller and I can do more than listen.

Will I get bored with it? Well, my first QRP contact was as a novice in 1971 with a xtal oscillator I was building hooked up to a light bulb as a dummy load on 40m. I sent a CQ playing around and someone actually answered me about 100 miles away. It's 31 years later and I'm still doing it. No, I don't think I'll get bored with QRP real soon.

Would I buy (or build) an amp for it? No way!
Will it replace my big rigs? Only when I want it to!
Is QRP a passing whim? 31 years worth and counting!
Do I regret having the 817? Heck no, if I knew how well it worked, I would have bought one sooner!

I'm sorry that others aren't able to get as much enjoyment out of QRP and hamming on the go as I and others do. That's really a shame, but to each his own. As for me, I'll keep my FT-817.

73,

Walt KE5WJ

 

I agree completly.  Don't get me wrong, I like QRP but I don't have enough money in it to buy a "real" radio.
Low power need not have a QRO price tag. Heck you can build your own ( lost concept? ) for a fraction of the price of the 817 and still have enough to buy something to take out the frustration of QRP out on the neighbor's new sat. TV system!

73 de Craig.......KC0GOA

 

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K2WH @ Jan. 29 2002,02:14)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">"I am rather leery of purchasing the high powered rigs for fear of becoming like some of the operators that I have heard...using way too much power for thier contact (I thought the FCC rules were to use the MINIMUM amount of power required for communication)" <DIV>

How does a non-participant who is just listening to another QSO determine way too much power is being used by others for the contact?

I am amazed that hams consistently make this statement when they are not party to the conversation.

(....................)

Power levels are not in the eye of the beholder, is in the eye of the operator himself!
</DIV>[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Since no one else has shed some light for K2WH, here goes....

"QSL Joe, you are 599 and 40 over too.  I am running 500 watts also.  Band conditions are great tonight.  Just heard a guy from out your way at only 599 & s7.  Said he was 2.5 watt QRP on a vertical taking a five mile hike. Looked him up and he is in the next town over from you.  What are you? 300 mi from here?  There is NO QRN today - less than s1, but I am getting slight QRM from someone. Hardly notice it, but could you bump it up to 1 KW?  I am sure that will squash the QRM.  And lets make sure our 5 element beams are right on target.... yes, mine is right at you.  How about yours?"

Up to the "300 miles from here" it was just like a QSO I heard on HF the other night!  Ok, so I carried it a bit far after that point.

All you have to do is listen and you can hear the reports from both sides, such as they are.  (times the reports are incorrect as in You are 599, but could you repeat you name, QTH & signal report for the third time?)

Absolute power corrupts absolutely.  And most know when it is being abused, in part because abusers often try to hide it.  And yes, dissagreements will occur regardless.

 

After sitting back and reading this entire thread I find I can not help but make a few comments.
First and foremost :
WHO CARES how much someone else pays for their rig(s), are they spending YOUR money?
Second:
this sounds like the typical bigger is better arguement. There was a time that if you had all that extra power it was because you could AFFORD to pay for it.
I am not happy with the current state of the hobby because it has gone  down the same road as performance cars, they dont show any skill, just ability to spend money. There once was a time when it was a measure of a persons ability to build a station, much the same as  building a street rod. You took the time to fine tune everything, now you just buy it.
Third: although this is the last point it is something that we all need to address if we want our hobby to survive.
WHAT IS THE DEAL WITH ALL THE SNOBBISH ELITEISM?
You people (you know which ones you are) are doing everything to destroy the hobby. At a time when we need to lock arms and defend the band spread from commercial poaching you are feeding the  arguement that we dont need the bands allocated to us.
Instead of badmouthing a mfg for making a rig that has a full line of accessories why arent you out there showing a group of youngsters how easy it is to get on the air with inexpensive equipment. Help them build an interest that will eventually give them the knowledge to wisely choose that once in a lifetime big buck rig when they can afford one.
We arent here to  call names we are here to advance knowledge and have fun doing it
Scott
N9TGW

 

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N9TGW @ Feb. 08 2002,21:43)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">After sitting back and reading this entire thread I find I can not help but make a few comments. <..... First.....Second..... etc>

Scott
N9TGW[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Well said Scott!

 

I have three different HF radios, IC 706, Kenwood TS2000, and the little Yazzzo 817. I have more pure "fun" with the 817. The 706 is great for my long drives back and forth to work, the TS2000 is a fabulous radio. My operating habits are very different from a lot, I don't DXCC, I don't even keep a log, I don't QSL card, and I don't contest. I PLAY with my radios. The 817 is more fun to play with. I do take one aspect of ham radio seriously, and that is emergency work. I dodge a lot of hurricanes here in NC. I have built an emergency comm package around the 817. It all fits into a roll around carry on type tool case. The only part not in the tool case is a large battery that I use if I need to go to high power with my pocket amp, which gives me 60 watts. I built this setup from the experience gained sitting in a motel room while riding out storms. It works, I can operate with the little rig for 3 or four days on the battery capacity that I have. That type of use is mostly listening to hear what is going on. It can be picked up with one hand and carried or the handle can be extended and you can roll it around the airport. Anyway it gives me a complete station that fits into an airline carryon type package. I have a lot of fun, (and spend a lot of money...hi hi) trying to make it as compact and versatile as possible. What it all boils down to is what you want to do with the ham hobby. I read a couple of Yahoo groups concerning the 817, one of them is people who "walk" around with their radios, outside, carrying dipoles on sticks. I get the impression they are having a blast... Now, as soon as I can buy a new tiny laptop I will squeeze it into my case with the 817 and I can work PSK31 from my tool case...............Hi..Hi

 

Some people, including new hams like me, are forced to operate QRP because of RFI problems that simply won't go away no matter what you do. I would know.

TNX & 73's,
Fabian C.
KD5JDG