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What It's Going to take...

Discussion in 'Amateur Radio News' started by KY5U, Aug 11, 2005.

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  1. AF2CW

    AF2CW Ham Member QRZ Page

    If I hear someone calling CQ on CW the only thing I'll be
    checking is their name and address.  If they are on CW
    they have taken the time to learn it, and that's good
    enough for me.  I won't care what license class they are
    whether it be a NCG, NCE, 13wpm General, 20wpm Extra,
    13wpm Extra, 5wpm General or 5wpm Extra.
     
  2. K1MVP

    K1MVP Ham Member QRZ Page

    Why should this survey be a "big surprise"--when half
    the hams in the U.S now are NCT`s most of them
    licensed in the past 15 to 20 years,--that with the
    support of "progressive" OT`s who favor the codeless
    license,--absolutely NO surprise to me.

                                 73, K1MVP
     
  3. N3MVF

    N3MVF Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    Will this ruin the service?  I don't know, but, I doubt it.  We all complain about the lowering of requirements in all aspects of life.

    Let me offer a non-ham story and try to understand the point directed to the radio "hobby".

    As an "older", now retired, Certified Public Accountant,CPA, I and my over age 40 collegues had to take the same rigourous exam as my senior partners.  But, our complaint was that the regulations doubled every 10 years so there was more material to learn for us "young" guys then our "OF" senior partners.  

    Understand, the test in the late 70's to early 80's required two and one half days of continuous testing (20 hours). Wednesday afternoon to Friday afternoon twice a year. Though calculators were being used in accounting, you could not use them at all during the exam!!!  So, we had this technology but like CPA's before us, we had to waste time adding up hundreds of numbers.  (Yet, we were required to have accounting degrees so you think we should be able to count after 16 years of school!)

    In the 1990's the rules changed, much to the complaining of my collegues.  The test was shortened to two days (16 hours) and you are allowed to use calculators!!!  We were "amazed" at this dumbing down.

    The moral of the story...Guess who ruined the accounting profession with the Enrons, Worldcoms, Adelphia's etc?  It was my collegues that took the more rigourous exam w/out the damn calculators!  The same crowd now runs the firms and did a fine job destroying the profession.  Hopefully, the "dumb" down CPA's of the 90's will do better then my generation and restore the profession.

    So all may not be lost in the hobby.

    73
    Greg
     
  4. N4WGN

    N4WGN Ham Member QRZ Page

    Change happens all around us all the time. Not all are good. We as people dont allways like them. But hey its part of life.

    I had big changes 5 years ago. I have allways worked nights. From the time i was 16 to 43. Now Im on days. Starting at 4 am. It was a change. But i had to do it and i dont like it.
     
  5. K3QLZ/SK2023

    K3QLZ/SK2023 Ham Member QRZ Page

    Contained within the comments of K9ROD, we see the epitome (embodiment) of present-day ARROGANCE. Nobody, Mr. K9ROD, except yourself is FORCING YOU to learn CW ! You, alone, have chosen to "Play the Game" of Amateur Radio, the rules of Amateur Radio include a requirement that you will have knowledge of CW, and, NOBODY has the right to "Pick & Choose" which rules they will, or will not obey within any Civilized Society. i.e. "You either OBEY and ABIDE by the Rules of the Game, or, YOU ARE OUT OF THE GAME." (Or in prison.) I would liken your "Disgraceful Attitude" to: "I have come into your home, UN-invited, I have raped your wife or daughter, and, if you don't like it - -YOU MAY LEAVE THIS HOME, unmolested, and don't BOTHER ME with YOUR RULES of behavior" ! I invite you to abandon the seclusion of your Computer and/or your Microphone, and, come to my home to "Check-Out my determination to Enforce MY RULES" ! Additionally, please don't ever use the word "Humble" in any of your future Tirades - - - you only DESECRATE its' meaning. Yes, you may consider this writing to be a "Personal Attack", but, when any person is making a feeble attempt at Personal Aggrandizement, at the expense of others, that too, becomes VERY PERSONAL !

    As was stated by AG4HY, "The SPLIT within Amateur Radio" is acknowledged, and, this acknowledgement is A LONG TIME OVERDUE. I, hereby, present MY OUTLOOK on this matter: "Any Society (And we are a Society.) when weighted-down by its' own DEBAUCHERY shall be caused to fail by its' own weight, rather than from any outside intervention" ! The most successful stategy for defeating an "Enemy" (The enemy from within ourselves) is to "Divide and Conquer" ! i.e. "Any Society Divided against itself cannot long Endure" !

    Whether you choose to acknowledge the fact, or not, Amateur Radio was the fore-runner to the present-day "World Order", before the meaning of "World-Order" was known. The talents of "The Greatest Generation" are now being denigrated in favor of "Expediency", which is disguised in the form of DUMBED-DOWN testing procedures, not only in Amateur Radio, but, within Society at Large. Coming from our children, we hear: "I failed my Math Exam because the batteries in my calculator went dead" ! From Foreign Auto Manufacturers we hear: "We will not establish more Auto Assembly Plants within the Continental U.S. because we cannot find prospective employees who are sufficiently educated to meet our educational standards" ! From Amateur Radio we hear: "You need only to match question #4, to answer "B" ! ( You connect a Red Wire to another Red Wire, WITH NO KNOWLEDGE of the PURPOSE for the Red Wire.)

    It is said by many who are more learned than I, that 90% of Human Intellectual Capacity remains
    UNUSED, and, that prompts the question: "Why should the knowledge/prowess of a proven means of communication (CW) be abandoned, when it could more easily be STORED in that 90% of UNUSED Intellectual Space? Answer: Because we have become a "Welfare Society" ! i.e. "I want everything that MY NEIGHBOR HAS, and, DON'T ASK ME TO WORK FOR IT", or, "If you don't change the RULES to MAKE IT EASIER FOR ME to get what I WANT, you are therefore DISCRIMINATING AGAINST ME, and, I will CALL MY LAWYER" !

    Ask yourself the following questions: "What has caused this "Split" in Amateur Radio" ? "Why does a FISTS member tell me that I must have a FISTS Registration Number,or, he won't talk to me" ? I am NOT singling-out FISTS in this matter, rather, I am singling-out any organization (ARRL, 10-10, DXCC, WAZ, WAS, etc.) who SELL THEMSELVES under the disguise of: "If you will send us SOME OF YOUR MONEY, we will provide you with an I.D. number, and, you may become ONE OF THE PRIVILEGED and ELITE Amateur Radio Operators of The World" !

    Finally, ask yourself this: "Which is more valuable: 1. The Amateur Radio License that I have EARNED, or, 2. "The I.D. number that I HAVE BOUGHT"?
     
  6. K1MH

    K1MH Ham Member QRZ Page

    EXACTLY!

    Mike
     
  7. K1MH

    K1MH Ham Member QRZ Page

    Very well said! The mind is like a muscle and if you don't use it you loose it.

    Mike - K1MH
     
  8. K9ROD

    K9ROD Ham Member QRZ Page

    Gene (K3QLZ)
    [QUOTE Contained within the comments of K9ROD, we see the epitome (embodiment) of present-day ARROGANCE. Nobody, Mr. K9ROD, except yourself is FORCING YOU to learn CW ! You, alone, have chosen to "Play the Game" of Amateur Radio, the rules of Amateur Radio include a requirement that you will have knowledge of CW, and, NOBODY has the right to "Pick & Choose" which rules they will, or will not obey within any Civilized Society. i.e. "You either OBEY and ABIDE by the Rules of the Game, or, YOU ARE OUT OF THE GAME." (Or in prison.) I would liken your "Disgraceful Attitude" to: "I have come into your home, UN-invited, I have raped your wife or daughter, and, if you don't like it - -YOU MAY LEAVE THIS HOME, unmolested, and don't BOTHER ME with YOUR RULES of behavior" ! I invite you to abandon the seclusion of your Computer and/or your Microphone, and, come to my home to "Check-Out my determination to Enforce MY RULES" ! Additionally, please don't ever use the word "Humble" in any of your future Tirades - - - you only DESECRATE its' meaning. Yes, you may consider this writing to be a "Personal Attack", but, when any person is making a feeble attempt at Personal Aggrandizement, at the expense of others, that too, becomes VERY PERSONAL !]

    First off I had no problem with the present day rules. But I am looking forward to the change in rules, since it will provide me the opportunity to get on the HF bands. This is because of my inability to learn CW. As for my "picking and choosing the rules", I've served 35 years in the military and law enforcement community upholding rule and fighting for everybody else when it wasn't popular to do so. I think I believe in abiding by rules. And don't liken me to anything.....get to know me first. As for being "Humble", I can be, but I also know how handle characters like you.
    I'm sorry you are so angered by what is about to take place in the amateur radio world. Your conviction seems to run very deep. I guess I would ask how many new hams have you taught CW to. I would think that would be at the top of your agenda, maybe even more important than bass fishing. By-the-way, no one is abandoning CW, we just choose not to make it part of the examination, same way we don't choose to make tuning a duplexer (not a diplexer) a part of the test even though you most likely use one all the time.
    Finally, I asked your question. Yes I am very proud of my license that I earned and will be proud of the next step when I take the General Class test without the moorse code requirement. If not I wouldn't have changed my call sign to my name. Have fun fishing. Rod K9ROD
     [​IMG]
     
  9. K4JF

    K4JF Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    Maybe we aren't living up to the standards (many of us) set by the FCC. But those are goals. That is no reason to change them. The goals are just as valid today as yesterday, we just need to find a way to get more hams involved in reaching for those goals. (Which does the coach do, teach the basketball players to shoot, or demand the goal be lowered?)

    No, I don't have the answer.... but I'm not willing to change the question just because I don't know the answer. If a significant number of us were to try to come up with an answer, we would achieve the goal.
     
  10. K4JF

    K4JF Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    So what? Who cares when the license was issued? If they have passed the exam prescribed by the FCC, then they are hams.

    The only time I will look one up is to get a mailing address for the QSL, or if I have reason to believe he/she is in an unauthorized band segment, or if I have reason to believe it is a pirated call. There is no other valid reason, in my opinion. (OK, maybe I want to see the biographical blurb.....)
     
  11. K5GHS

    K5GHS Ham Member QRZ Page

    Tossing my 2c in (been working a lot of OT lately, so I think I can afford it, for once)

    I've never had problem with code being a requirement, and after Field day this year and experiencing HF, I'm working on it. Will I meet the deadline where I may not need it anymore? I don't know yet.

    I don't have a real problem with the "rift" so to say, but I do have a problem with this NCT "stereotype" that if I don't learn code, I'm lazy.

    I would much prefer if the ARS was what I have seen it been before. Not "YOU DON'T HAVE CODE, YOU'RE LAZY" but "You're a NCT, have you considered upgrading?" would be a better answer to the question, I think. Luckily enough I have had a good portion of people say the second answer instead of the first.

    Why didn't I learn code? A few reasons. Sure, I'm sure many of these will be refuted, but here they are.

    1) Time. I work (normally) 40 hours per week, but lately its been more like 56. I love my hobby. Every morning the HT, being charged the night before diligently, gets packed with me to work. I set it up here every day, I can't leave the antenna up so every morning I put it up and get the HT setup. If I get time, I get on there and talk. If not, I still monitor in case someone calls for help or needs something. When I'm mobile, I have a radio in the car. If conditions permit and I hear someone calling for help, or just to talk, I'll get on there and talk to them. Last week I was lucky enough to be the first QSO for a new KI6 call ham here locally. I did my best to welcome him to the hobby, answer any questions he had, and sent him a list via email of some of the repeaters I use in the area. If he emails me back asking for help, I will do my best to help him. But, also, with working long hours, and life itself, CW practice isn't always in the cards. Lazy? No, just having a life, working to make something for myself, and working in my hobby as best as I can around that schedule.

    2) Happy with what I had. When I got licenced, I was 17. At that time, I studied for a few months, drove 86 miles to the closest test, and luckily enough, passed the first time. I then started operating with the privledges I had, and I was happy with them. I considered Morse, but then I graduated high school and had technical school coming. It was very clear that I needed to concentrate on my studies as well as work to maintain a residence. Again, though, the radio was in my car or with me, and I did my best to help others when I could, and at this time, I was asking a lot of questions myself. I was lucky enough to have operators at the other end of the QSO who were happy to help me.

    So with that, is my reasoning.

    My point is, I have no problem with someone who is above me giving me a little ribbing about not having code. But, when said ribbing turns into me being called lazy and/or someone flatly REFUSING to have anything to do with me because I haven't gotten around to learning it, I don't really like that at all.

    Can you honestly blame NCI for what they did? Well, I don't agree with it, but from what I'm seeing here, the hostility finally got to some of them, and they organised and succeeded in "tearing the wall down" that stopped them from upgrading, at least in thier opinion. I don't agree with what they have accomplished, but I can see the reasoning for them trying what they did. If you joined this hobby to enjoy it and the first experience you had was someone putting you down because you didn't learn a mode, I could see why you would want to 'get them back' so to speak by having said requirement for testing removed. Doesn't mean I agree with it, but I can understand why they did it.

    I hope that on the air that everyone continues to be the way they are. I hope that any "ribbing" or insulting about not having code continues to occur in private and not on the air. I saw some posts on here about some clubs not taking new people because of this also, and that is a shame. Apparrantly those clubs don't wish to survive, because without new blood, they won't. I however also see the reasoning behind the new blood not wanting to be a part of them either though-why join something that you are not wanted in?

    And that will be my final point I want to make. I hope that once this passes that everyone takes a deep breath and still works to try and welcome new people into the hobby, wether coded, codeless, or otherwise. If the hostility extends to the airwaves and new hams like myself 13 years ago are simply berated for not being coded, then soon this hobby will become extinct, which would definetely be a shame. I know code was a tradition, and I know myself I wish it was being kept for the Extra class, but I hope out there on the spectrum we still possess that we can use it and continue to carry on the tradition of communication, aiding others in the hobby, and using the skills we have to help in emergencies, as well as welcoming others into the hobby and helping those who want to join us.

    *tosses my 2 cents into the debate jar*

    Have a good day, everyone.
     
  12. K1MH

    K1MH Ham Member QRZ Page

    You missed the point. Very soon there won't be any way to find out who did and who did not pass the code exam.

    That is the subject of this thread.

    Mike - K1MH
     
  13. AB0WR

    AB0WR Ham Member QRZ Page

    I hope you take this in the vein in which it is meant.

    First, I have heard exactly what you posted from a number of Life Scouts. "I've earned 19 merit badges and I just don't have time to get the rest and get a project done before I'm eighteen. I'm working and have school and everything else. I just don't understand why the requirements are set where they are. I should be able to get my Eagle rank anyway".

    It's all about motivation and time budgeting. If you took the time in your car to listen to morse code rather than monitoring the local repeater you could learn 5wpm code in a matter of weeks (barring a physical disability - but if you can listen to a repeater on a mobile rig you can probably also hear a tone over a speaker).

    Pleading "no time" is a rationalization useful in having to avoid the realization that you just have never been motivated enough to "climb the mountain" and learn the code.

    Now that the top of the mountain has been sheared off in order to equalize everyone it most definitely gets *easier* to upgrade. If it gets easier then it is NOT a good thing in my opinion.

    So, while you may not be "lazy", it is a certainty that you lacked the motivation to upgrade. Lot's of people tend to congregate with people who exhibit the same level of motivation they do. So you should consider whether they are not letting you in the club because you are "lazy" or whether it is because they would rather associate with someone of similar motivation. Have you ever been to a motocross race? When I was racing it was almost always the case that the pro's hung out with the pro's. They just had a different level of interest than many of us novices or amateurs (who were just as interested in chasing the girls as in the racing).

    If the motiviation of NCI was to tear down the mountain because they were pissed at not being accepted into the club, then that tells me a lot about their inner character. It's like the Hodaka 50 owner not being accepted as a full member of the local Harley owners club. Sure, they all own motorcycles. The level of motivation involved in in making a committment to save the money needed to buy a Harley is just a lot larger. Yeah, the Hodaka owner can go away pissed at not being accepted but he needs to look a little deeper at what is fueling the anger.

    Anyway, the RIGHT OF ASSOCIATION is an enumerated right in the Constitution. If the guys that passed a Morse Code test don't want to hang with you, that is their right. You do NOT have a *right* to be accepted in a group unless you meet the expectations of the group. Either go find another group or start one of your own. Jealousy and envy work both ways you know.

    tim ab0wr
     
  14. KY5U

    KY5U Ham Member QRZ Page

    Another person bantying around the "change" word to look all smart and progressive and all. This is a lazy person's argument. It takes too much effort to examine change and weed out the bad ones. Right?

    Yes there is a big division in the ranks. My question to the older amateurs is, what was the division before the NCT issue? Or is creation of the NCT the ultimate cause of the division? And the Techs, hold your spleen tight for a few messages and lets hear the answer.
     
  15. W5MJL

    W5MJL Ham Member QRZ Page

    KD6NIG

    I have to agree with Tim on this.  There is so much that can be learned in the car.  People who feel they have no time should consider this avenue.

    No offense, but if someone tells me they are going to try to get something done before a certain date, I already know they won't.  I am not trying to put you down in any way.  It's just human nature.  

    It has nothing to do with being lazy.  It has to do with setting priorities and having motivation to get the job done.  

    If you said I will learn my 5wpm code before december 31, 2005 then chances are you will.
     
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