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What Happened to the Phonetic Alphabet?

Discussion in 'Amateur Radio News' started by Guest, Dec 19, 2001.

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  1. N1YR

    N1YR Ham Member QRZ Page

    Some of your comments are on the money - many of the combinations like your examples are confusing and slow things down - but sometimes you have to allow for some variation. I use "Yankee Radio" often, but being from the Northeast it fits your criteria. In VHF pileups folks here often use "Fox Nancy" (three syllables) for the Grid Square instead of "Foxtrot November," which takes twice as long to say. Also, many hams work in Public Safety. The police here MANDATE Adam, Boy, Charles, David, Edward ...etc. if someone momentarily forgets which mike they're on - give them a break!
     
  2. N8YV

    N8YV Guest

    I supported my complaint about the "-lulu" being mistaken for Zulu. During poor/noisy conditions, especially QSB, "Honolulu" has more than once caught me by surprise. That you have had success is commendable, but my problem with the longer word remains a valid one. Happy Holidays!
     
  3. N1KWW

    N1KWW XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    I suppose I could say the same thing a sk friend and fellow ham might say. "What ever floats your boat". I too hear the phonetics used by contesters and ragchewers. Will never forget the 10 meter contest contact with "blooming zipper flipper". I was KA1YFB and he asigned yellow flutter butter as my "phonetics".
    Certainly this is not the accepted phonetics but it indicates that at times stepping away from the norm is certainly entertaining.
    During times of disasters or emergencies involving other agencies the use of accepted phonetics is mandatory. Their use during these times makes it much easier for all concerned.
    In order to make the most contacts, a contester will come up with phonetics for their call that will make it easier for stations to identify their call.
    I realize this is not information coming from a rocket scientist type newspaper. If it "floats your boat" what harm does it do. We, as hams have more pressing problems than using alpha, bravo....
    Take a look at the rapidly shrinking ham community, the loss of radio spectrum and the language on the bands today. Spend the time building up ham radio. Visit a school or retirement home and show what ham radio can mean to shut-ins.
    Talk up ham radio rather than talking it down.
    This is November One King Willie Wilie or November One Killowatt Whiskey Whiskey SK
     
  4. VA2GK

    VA2GK Ham Member QRZ Page

    I wont argue to death about that (to I.D. in English) because i have no proof, but I really would like to see that rule... I never heard about that and I think it doesn't make sense. I know it stands true for aviation communications but for Ham radio, doubtful.
     
  5. WC4FSU

    WC4FSU Ham Member QRZ Page

    I just wanted to let you know that I work at APCO as the manager of our distance education program, the Virtual Institute, and as an instructional designer, I edit our training textbooks for public safety communicators. We only recommend the use of the ICAO phonetic alphabet (alpha, bravo, charlie, delta, etc.). We do caution employees to use whatever their agency requires, if it is different. Thank you.

    Helen Straughn, WC4FSU
    APCO Virtual Institute
    Instructional Designer
    351 N. Williamson Blvd.
    Daytona Beach, FL 32114-1112
    Voice: (386) 944-2485
    Fax: (386) 944-2785
    straughnh@apco911.org
    www.apcoinstitute.org
     
  6. N2RJ

    N2RJ XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    Paul said:




    <BLOCKQUOTE>I hear pro-CW operators extole the virtue of CW as an international language, in part because of the Q-codes used. Then they say it shouldn't be used in voice???? </P> </BLOCKQUOTE>




    To which my reply was:


    Nope, I meant not on FM repeaters where the audio quality is excellent. I hear alot of Q codes and radioese on 2 meter repeaters. I don't think language would be an issue. We're not talking to the cab drivers. </P>
     
  7. WW0H/SK2022

    WW0H/SK2022 Ham Member QRZ Page

    I try to use the standard phonetics, but with the call WW0H, many foreign stations think I am repeating myself and want to know what letter they are missing. Then I use whatever gets the call copied correctly.

    As for "destinated" as one poster mentioned, as an EMT, I use 10-23 (never say that on 2 meters!) for arriving on scene. But even plain language is being used more often. Use what gets the message across most clearly most effectively.

    By the way, that's what CW does as well.
     
  8. AG4HG

    AG4HG Ham Member QRZ Page

    The standard phonetics were adopted for clarity's sake. Copying is instinctive when the proper phonetics are used. Save the cute phonetics for 11 meters.
     
  9. WX4TS

    WX4TS Ham Member QRZ Page

    Consider my call- K5ZJQ. I have a hard time getting people to get it right, but I find that
    "zed-j-q" falls more trippingly from my tongue than using "z-j-q". This is something I have used since I was licensed in 1993, and have only ever had one local ham that wanted to differ with me
    over the use of "zed" instead of "z", stating that the proper phonetic was "zulu". But I will continue using "zed" instead of "z" because it's easier for me, and will not stop using because of some self-appointed phonetic police officer who doesn't like MY choice...
    73,
    Thom - K5ZJQ
     
  10. K0CBS

    K0CBS Ham Member QRZ Page

    I like your idea "No One Remembers Yesterday". That's neat, but I don't have any other ideas for you. I will still ID as Kilo Zero Charley Bravo Sugar although after the contact is made I'll use Kilo Zero Columbia Broadcasting System. And I don't ever use 11 meters.

    73 or 73's
    Mark, K0CBS
     
  11. N8ARY

    N8ARY Ham Member QRZ Page

    I agree, at least use something other than locations.
     
  12. KG4CHW

    KG4CHW Ham Member QRZ Page

    I agree! I am also a net control station, and when I get someone giving me kilo watt as the beginning of their call sign, I start to write KW. I don't understand why hams refuse to use the standard ITU phonetic alphabet. It is so ingrained in my brain, that I have to stop and think what the letter is if someone uses improper phonetics.
     
  13. Midwest

    Midwest QRZ Member

    We simply do not recognize a single entity as having the right to tell us what to do and say. Some people still won't tear the tags off their pillows because the tag says not. The only real rule is tradition and our own personal choices. Those who want uniforms should join the Army.

    73,
     
  14. VA2GK

    VA2GK Ham Member QRZ Page

  15. W9IND

    W9IND Ham Member QRZ Page

    Though I certainly see the need for standard phonetics, and I don't endorse cutesy substitutes (except in informal conversation), I nevertheless believe that the standard phonetic alphabet is fundamentally flawed. Having been an op for special event station W87PAX in 1987 and done a fair number of international contests, I can tell you that the ITU list leaves much to be desired, especially when the words are uttered in heavily accented English (and/or during heavy QRM/QRN/QSB).

    "Alfa" and "Oscar" (frequently pronounced "OSE-kah") can sound identical. "Delta," "Golf," "India," "Papa" and "Mike" often get lost in the muck.

    The list's biggest shortcoming is that many of the words don't stress the name of the letter. Here's what I mean: With "Peter-Able-Ocean," for instance, we can clearly hear the sounds of the letters "P-A-O." Not so with "Papa-Alfa-Oscar."

    And why does the list use "Echo" instead of "Easy," and "India" instead of "Item"? Again, we don't hear the sounds of the vowels.

    I can also tell you that multi-syllablic words work well -- and often better -- in difficult conditions, because even if you catch only the last couple of syllables, you can still deduce the letter in question. Thus, either "Zanzibar" or "...zibar" gets the point across, as does "Ontario" or "...ario" and "Germany" or "...many."

    Don't get me wrong: Standard phonetics are fine in good conditions. But in less-than-ideal conditions, it's often a waste of time if you continue to repeat a word that wasn't discerned the first time (such as "Oscar"). Try saying "Ocean" or "Ontario" and see if it doesn't clear things up immediately. And if it works for you (as it has countless times for me), ask yourself why any of us should feel slavishly devoted to a list that often fails in its primary mission: making communications clearer.
     
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