What did advanced hams do to become extras

Discussion in 'Ham Radio Discussions' started by W6FYK, Mar 20, 2018.

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  1. AC0GT

    AC0GT Ham Member QRZ Page

    What do you think you proved by not upgrading? Aren't you just punishing yourself with self imposed limited access to frequencies? If Amateur Extra is "worthless" then what does that make General with fewer privileges? Less than worthless? Why keep a license at all?
    WU8Y, K7JEM and N2EY like this.
  2. AF9J

    AF9J Ham Member QRZ Page

    What did I do when I was an Advanced to become an Extra? Easy, I passed a 20 wpm code test, and passed the written Extra exam (this was back in 1994)? :)
    N2EY likes this.
  3. AC0GT

    AC0GT Ham Member QRZ Page

    They might still have a events for "novices" but not only for that specific license class, but for young people with a new license. The Novice license has existed unchanged for 18 years now. Is anyone keeping a station specifically for those with a Novice license? Are people in their 30s still needing a "boost" to get on the air?

    That was a fluke, don't expect that to happen again.


    I expect that the FCC will want to do another restructuring soon. Perhaps just to clear out old rules as they've been known to do time to time. Perhaps as part of introducing a new license class that the ARRL and others keep asking for. Perhaps for reasons that have not been revealed to me yet.

    If the FCC issues only two license classes then I suspect the new first tier license would look nothing like the existing Technician or General. The FCC has a tendency to simplify the rules, not complicate them. Maintaining licensed privileges by sub-band is complicated, that's likely to be the first thing to go.

    Having a first tier license with privileges to operate 1500 watts RF output is nonsensical in most every way, that's even if they are confined to above 30MHz. Let's have a first tier license with lower RF output privileges, limit them to somewhere between 50 to 200 watts at the top end. Novice has had a limit to 200 watts on HF, so I propose we go with that.

    A new license structure should solve problems the FCC cares about. They want simple rules for them to enforce. They want people to not interfere with other services. By doing away with sub-band privileges and limiting power to something like 200 watts on all but the top tier license then we'll see something that the FCC just might do.
    W4KYR likes this.
  4. N2EY

    N2EY Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    But they still offered all three commercial licenses, didn't they?

    It's always possible that they could. I just find no reason for them to do so. Particularly when it comes to cost.

    I disagree - here's why:

    One can renew an amateur license online, and nobody at FCC does a thing. The licensee just logs on and requests a renewal, the computer renews it, and if the licensee has requested a paper copy of the license, the system prints and mails it. No human interaction at all.

    IF there is some question about a licensee's renewal (say, there's an ongoing enforcement action), that license will be red-flagged (or whatever it is called by FCC) at the time of the enforcement action, and the renewal will not be processed automatically.

    But I don't think FCC does renewals manually if the application for renewal is online. So there would need to be some sort of red flag......for 41,000+ licenses. And the process could take as long as 12 years.

    But the cost of an upgrade is almost nothing. Most VECs upload the upgrade results to FCC directly. For all we know, the process is completely automatic at the FCC end. (That's the real "genius" of the VEC system: FCC gets unpaid VEs to enormous amounts of work that used to be done by paid Federal employees - and the VEs do it on their own time. Some VECs don't even charge for exams, even though they are allowed to (the money goes to pay the expenses of running the VE sessions).

    On what do you base that belief? What does it really cost FCC to keep the Novice and Advanced classes just as they are?

    Again - why? What does it cost FCC to do nothing?

    Sure - but that was done because they had to do it. They don't have to do a thing about the Advanced and the Novice.

    Maybe, but I doubt it. It costs FCC nothing to leave things as they are. The Novice and Advanced involve a very few paragraphs of Part 97. There's no hurry, and no big savings.

    Any proposal that gives or takes away privileges from existing licenses is bound to cause a pile of stuff to descend on FCC.......and they know it. And it won't just be from those directly affected; there will be all sorts of stuff from others. All of that can be avoided by simply doing nothing at all.

    Just watch - attrition will do the job, no muss no fuss.

    Check out this thread:


    Yesterday, there were 8,854 Novices. About a year ago (March 30 2017), there were 9,663. That's a drop of 809 in a year. 809 is 8.34%. FCC has waited 17 years, why shouldn't they wait 17 more?
  5. WA9SVD

    WA9SVD Ham Member QRZ Page

    Limited t0o 75 Watts iNPUT, and CW only sounds about right...
  6. N2EY

    N2EY Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    No, Jerry, I'm not wrong - you are. What I wrote is absolutely true; you just didn't understand the meaning of what I wrote.

    Here it is again:

    All your Advanced, by itself, proves is that you passed 5 wpm.

    See those two words in big red letters? They prove that I am right and you are wrong.

    You were? What was your call and when did you pass the General test? You were KC4KWH before you got your present call under the vanity program - right? That's what the ULS page says.

    The earliest Callbook I can find with KC4KWH listed is Winter 1990. The Winter 1989 Callbook does not list that call, so you were probably first licensed in 1989 - unless you held a license long before and let it lapse. Is that what happened?

    The Winter 1990 Callbook shows KC4KWH on page 406 as a Technician.

    The 1993 Callbook shows KC4KWH on page 483 as a Technician.

    The 1994 Callbook shows KC4KWH on page 505 as a General.

    The 1996 Callbook shows KC4KWH on page 553 as an Advanced.

    So, Jerry, tell us: When did earn the General license before 1990?


    Of course, someone can provide more information than the fact that they have an Advanced, and so prove they passed 13 wpm. But that does not change the fact that their Advanced license, by itself, does NOT prove they passed 13 wpm. It only proves 5 wpm. To prove they passed 13 wpm requires more information than just the Advanced license.

    btw, I had an Advanced in 1968! Back then, one had to not just receive but send too. Passing grade was 65 or more correct consecutive legible characters - and no going back and fixing anything afterwards. "Legible" meant "The FCC Examiner had to be able to read it".

    Did you do ANY of that, Jerry? If so, when and where?

    (It's a simple matter to check people's license history using online callbooks....)

    When was that?

    The code TEST wasn't eliminated until 2007. The code TEST for Extra was reduced to 5 wpm in 2000 - announced in 1999. BUT - medical waivers for 13 and 20 wpm code were available in 1990.

    How so?

    I've had an Extra for almost 48 years, Jerry. Why do you say it is meaningless?

    Sure - and you were a Technician for several years until you upgraded to General - well after 1990.

    There's nothing wrong with getting a license via the VEC system.

    There's nothing wrong with getting a license with a medical waiver for 13 or 20 wpm code, if someone meets the criteria.

    There's nothing wrong with getting a license by meeting the requirements in place at the time.

  7. WZ7U

    WZ7U Ham Member QRZ Page

    No he's not. Yes he is. No he's not. Yes he is.

    This thread officially sucks.
  8. W7ARX

    W7ARX Guest

    I know what I did, studied a study guide, tested and passed...pretty much as I did for General to Advanced...
    N2EY and WZ7U like this.
  9. W3WN

    W3WN Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    Good thing I put Mr. Debakey and Mr. Barnard on standby when this thread started.

    They’re waiting for you. Room 12A, just along the corridor.
    WU8Y likes this.
  10. WB0MPB

    WB0MPB XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    I have no clue what you are talking about??
    I took my Advance test about 42 years ago and I am still an Advance class. I never received an auto upgrade to Extra. I have to study and take another test to become an Extra. I have the book and I am working on it.
    John, WB0MPB
    WD0BCT and N2EY like this.

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