US Packet Network

To KD7RHE,

While you make several good points, you really don't realize just how active hams are in Public Service. While it varies widely from region to region, in the regions where hams have developed especially good relationships with government agencies, our communications skills (and 0$ cost) is much appreciated. And many of the professionals are not as good at emergency communications as hams. Nothing against these fine people, but they are trained in whatever their specialty is and radio skills are not stressed. They don't do directed nets. What about transfers of files where a larger amount of data is required? We have packet. Need to track the progress of a several supply support groups converging on a disaster site? We have APRS.

And guess who rode with the squad cars when a blizzard blew down the antenna at police headquarters in a nearby town. A radio was set up at HQ for dispatch purposes while hams fixed the broken vertical. All at 0$ cost to the town.

We do not rush in where we are not asked, but we always help when we are needed.

KB1FLR, Rick

 

Sure Rick you are right there. But read between the lines here. What N5PVL proposes is nothing short of a "Ham Radio Militia" on some wierd search and destroy mission. That fantasy stuff. If you think we have Fed problems now... man that's enough for them to close up shop on us permanently.

 

To kd7rhe
    I wasn't going to bother answering this, but enough stupidity is enough.
    If the government doesn't want hams involved in emergency communications, please explain why that same government just provided a nice grant to pay for training hams in emergency communication procedures.
    Also, I do not believe CAP is paid for with your tax dollars. If my understanding is correct they buy and maintain their own aircraft and equipment.
    All I can say to you is if you wish to be a nihilist that is your right, but please leave the people that want to be active alone.

 

Additional note to kd7rhe:
Read part 97.1 (a).

 

MARS still does over 1000 phone patches a month, CAP is still in heavy use in the Pacific Northwest and Alaska. Just because you don't use it don't mean nobody uses it. 73 Chris

 

To N7JBJ. The Civil Air Patrol (CAP) is an auxilary of the USAF and it's funding comes directly fro the defence department budget. Please load brain before shooting mouth.

 

To N7JBJ Cont... also Civil Air Patrols national Head Quarters is at Maxwell Air Force Base in AL. Your Own US Federal Government prosecuted and convicted CAP's National Commander two years ago for the embezzlement of federal funds, and for exactly what I'm talking about here. Not exactly the type of organization I'd want to assc my self with if I were an upstanding citizen or Ham Radio operator. I care little about what people or orgs USED to do. Heck when I was 1 year old I USED to soil my diapers. I don't now. The point being Ham radio should evolve with our surroundings in order to survive. Those who keep living in the past is holding us all back. We should find new ways to be useful insted of just waiting arround for some disaster that may never come, and even if it dose will we even be wanted. We need to re-think our roll in how we can truely be of service to our fellow man, not only during a disaster, but every minute of every day. Our future depends on it. That's where groups like Civil Air Patrol went a stray. They thought only of Free Flying hours in the cockpit of some beat up old Cessna 182 and little about why they were there in the first place. We need to reach out to the public and serve everyday, not just during time of trouble. This is the role of any TRUE American.

 

KD7RHE: I really WAS only kidding!! Thank you!!
-Radioweenie-

 

To the guy that thinks amateur radio can serve no use during emergencies.....

Tell your story to the thousands of people in rural and some urban areas of tornado alley. They'd laugh in your face. Run a check for articles on the ARRL website for the Hoisington tornadoe and read it. This story only scrapes the surface of the impact amateur radio has on emergency communication in these areas. It's not always about post-event communications, sometimes it's about advance warnings. Step out of your shelter and open your eyes to other parts of the country.

Just my two cents! kc0mdc

 

RIGHT ON MAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You just became my new hero.

Count me in..

73 KC7R UN

http://kc7run.hollowfx.com

 

kc0mdc... Your point is valid and and I agree with you. How ever, few care what Jed and Elli-May are up to on the farm. Rural America is not in step or in tune with the pulse of the Nation. That's why it's called "Rural". If you want to impress the masses about what you can do, or show the majority your usefulness, then the masses is what you need to target your focus on. I read an artical on QRZ not to long ago that complained how the media either miss-represented or ignored how Ham radio assisted during emergency services. This sounds a bit off the wall for some(maybe even most), but when voting for club officers/positions you may wish to add a position that currently dosen't exsist...a PR director. Someone assigned to promoting both the hobby and their club in particular. And preferably it would be someone under the age of 90 that could learn how to keep the white shirt and pocket protector in the closet. Let's face it, the gentalmen who wrote the artical on how the Media was giving Ham Radio a bad wrap hit the mark. I was watching the Jim Carry Show the other night and they were talking about the definition of a loser. Carry turned to the group and said "Hey, I'm not officialy a loser untill a Ham Radio shows up in my living room." At which time my wife and I looked at each other, and then simultaneously turned gazing in disbelief at the stack of Ham Radios sitting on the desk...in our living room. Ham radio in need of some PR guys? Yep...I'd say so.

 

Personally, I can't get too worked up at kd7rhe's opinions. We all have opinions, its no big deal. This is, after all, an open forum.

Imagine trying to conduct a serious, productive discussion with folks like kd7rhe chipping in, though!

In general, trying to discuss packet radio on the Internet is much like trying to discuss code/no code... The noise level rapidly precludes any chance at rational, productive discussion.

One much-needed service that USPN provides to packet radio networkers is a forum that is dedicated to that purpose, where trolls are actively discouraged from turning a discussion of packet radio networking issues into something like " the kd7rhe show ", as has happened here.  

Charles,  N5PVL
www.uspacket.net

 

After reading (and in some cases re-reading) each response, it appears that both general comments (need for packet radio and the "outdated" role of amateur radio) are indeed correct.

First, N5PVL advocates the need for a nation-wide packet network. I agree in principle, but I've seen other ideas like this go astray quickly. A brief example from the Show-Me State, or should I say "Show-Me how to do it WRONG"? Most amateurs here believe that packet is a lost cause, inspite of the all the numerous real examples given by others. Many have turned to APRS and PSK31, good nodes as well. The digital community here is divided to the point that a local APRS couldn't get his digi co-ordinated the main reason being that he wanted to name it a descriptive name rather than call (e.g., TOWN vs. KZ1AA-3). Without coordination, a digi (or repeater trustee) opens themselves up to scrunity. Meanwhile, I see NO progress going anywhere except individuals who refuse to work for the "greater good."

KD7HRE is right about the need for PR, but more importantly, the ham community needs to come to grips with itself. Whatever emergency or disaster comes our way, we should welcome and endorse ANY mode that help route traffic through. I do not believe that the typical ham shack will ever rival the commerical equipment that public safety agencies, but that does not have to be a limit. We can still partner with public safety people and work together. Planning for "Armagadden" may be futile, but weather nets, maritime nets, and MARS are a few activities that the public receives good from amateur radio.

I'm skeptical of any national plan to provide for us completely. The reason being that the isolated rural locations will always have operators who mistrust the "greater good" of society. The East and West coasts have been successful with contingency plans in large part due to urban sprawl, meaning that people are tightly clustered together. Here in Jasper County Missouri, we have nearly a dozen separate fire departments, two 911 centers, and independent sheriff's department, and some independent police agencies that insist on maintaining autonomy. All this in an approximate area of 35 miles by 25 miles.

At best, the US Packet network could be a clearing house to educate hams and the public about packet radio. It could also help elmer hams into this mode. Lack of elmering is a real problem affecting ham radio in more ways than packet radio.

Second, whether we agree with KD7RHE, his opinions echo many public officials' and general public's sentiments about ham radio. Here in Jasper County, one emergency manager will NOT accept amateur spotter reports in sounding tornado sirens. She requires a fire fighter or police officer to visibly verify the report. No wonder so few hams want to help. My own family calls me a "CB'er" even though I know electronic principles and had to pass an exam for amateur radio. Why should I get angry when others claim that ham radio offers 'nothing'? Others outside our hobby are seeing the disorganization and lack of direction that many hams (and local clubs) show.

Improving our image is a must, but that is another topic. As for packet, the USPN should foster and help hams develop their own networks VOLUNTARILY and with respect for LOCAL ways. Otherwise, the Missouri experience may come to reign in an otherwise good idea.

J C K5DMI

 

To KD7RHE and the group:

I'm a veteran who held two communications related MOS's in the Army.  I'm also a ham, and I've been involved in amateur emergency communications work for several years now.  I'm also involved in one of the efforts already mentioned in this thread.  Frankly, much of what you say is not on point; some of it is flat out wrong...and generally offensive in the way it's presented.  

Quoting kd7rhe:
"...the term "Emergency Communications" and "To provide emergancy(sic) communications" were left out of the definition of ham radio by the FCC and is no longer even one of the functions of Ham Radio."

Please refer to Part 97, subpart A, of the Federal Communications Rules for the Amateur Radio Service (47CFR97§97.1(a)).  You probably missed this question on your Technician license exam.  In looking at the passages I quoted, you probably could use some spelling and grammar practice as well as a review of FCC rules.  

Again:
"In the biggest emergency this nation ever faced, World War II ham radio was banned just 5 days after the attack on Pearl Harbor and remained illegal for the duration of the war."

That's probably one of the reasons Part 97, Subpart E (RACES) was added, to allow amateurs to continue to provide emergency communications assistance to Civil Defense/Civil Preparedness organizations in the event the President invokes the War Powers Act.  

Another snippet:
"You'd think they'd have used hams (during WWII) as coast spotters or something..."

They did use them.  Many amateurs (as well as landline telegraph operators) were recruited to serve as radio operators during WWII.  They required a lot less training than your average guy off the street.  I seem to remember something in Part 97 about a "...pool of qualified operators" or something like that...

"They (sic) actual need for ham radio operators for in todays (sic) modern civillization (sic) is pretty much nill(sic)."

Wrong again.  Granted, you're never going to form a door-kickin' counter-terrorist unit out of a local ARES or RACES group...but within the proper context, ham radio operators can be useful to emergency preparedeness organizations.  Generally speaking, that proper context is to augment the existing resources, and provide communications when normal systems are overloaded or disrupted.  I'm going to come back to that context in a minute.

I don't know what sort of "real thing" you did in the military, but I know that during the Vietnam war it took something like 11 support pogues to field one infantryman.  I don't even want to know how many rear-echelon types it takes to field a single Ranger, SEAL, or Special Forces soldier.  The unqualified "I served" statement gives you no "instant credibility" as far as I'm concerned.  

Many of the soldiers who have been pressed into "homeland defense" roles (at airports, for example) are probably not as well trained as your average cop when it comes to domestic security roles.  This is especially true considering the fact that many are guardsmen and reservists - components loaded with support units.  Even if the troops are from combat arms units, they're still proabably not that well equipped for a real counterterrorism mission.  With the exception of MP's/SP's and a handful of outfits that actually train in counterterrorism, your average grunt is not trained for hostage situations - a common component of terrorist tactics.

If you ever spent more than an afternoon near any elite unit, you should have heard the term "force multiplier", generally referring to elite units that have a disproportionate impact.  (A Nazi division is tied up in the rear because of a few OSS Jedburgs and some Maquis..."smart bombs" hit their targets because of litte recon detachments on the ground "painting" targets...and so on.)

Can we, as amateurs, become "force multipliers"?  Not in that sense, no.  But we can make a meaningful difference, using corollary thinking.  Given some of the other efforts on and after 9/11, this is almost embarrasing to bring up, but my group made a dent on 9/11, however small.  It was better than staring blankly at CNN all day, which is all that most could do.  My example:

On September 11, I was in our county EOC.  The Emergency Management Director received a call from the state capitol regarding reports of gasoline price gouging.  Gov. Bush had already declared a state of emergency, which by Florida law is supposed to effectively freeze gasoline prices.  Our little group (complete with "HT's and pocket protectors") went out and gathered gasoline price data.  Some problems were identified, and the practice was stopped before it even became a problem.  Without us, they would have probably looked to law enforcement officers to do this little task, or it simply would not been done.  

The bottom line is this: If we, as amateurs, can take some of the load off the conventional systems during a crisis, then we free those resources up to handle the higher priority stuff.  By planning to do that, it helps ensure that we'll be where we need to be if (God forbid) we are needed to actually replace those normal systems.  

I submit that as a starting point for the discussion of a role for amateur radio in "homeland defense".  

73,
-Brian, KV4CA

 

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC8RXI @ July 26 2002,21:21)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Sorry if this seems a little off topic but, I'm wondering. How can hams provide emergency communicaitons with packet radio? Computers would seem a little hard to manage at a disaster scene.

              Just wondering,
               
                             KC8RXI[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

No, your post is entirely on-topic. Portable packet setups usually work with a laptop computer, although some manage it with a PDA. There are lots of older laptops around, and they do fine for packet use. Even a 386 with a monochrome screen will do packet.

If there is a packet network to hook up to, low powered portable packet setups are useful for storm spotting, emergency communications, and can be a lot of fun in between times.

A safety issue with portable packet... Do not try to operate while driving! It's best to get someone else to drive for you, or pull over. Don't want to wind up in a ditch, or something!

Charles,  N5PVL

http://www.uspacket.net