Upsetting a Repeater God

Discussion in 'Ham Radio Discussions' started by KD2WJP, Jul 7, 2021.

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  1. VK4HAT

    VK4HAT Ham Member QRZ Page

    Its ham radio, not private club radio. Its shared spectrum, not private club spectrum. A private repeater really flies in the face of free and open use of spectrum by all licensed hams. If I was to call dibs on 7.023 and made that frequency a private club frequency, would you lose your mind or say Robs spent a lot of money on this radio and does not want the unwashed masses using it?

    I am fine with banning someone for anti social behavior on the repeater, but having anti social repeaters that ban everyone unless they pay to play sounds a lot more like commercial radio than ham radio to me.
    KA0USE, KN4LGM, M0IND and 5 others like this.
  2. K7JEM

    K7JEM Ham Member QRZ Page

    That's been the rule in the USA for over 40 years, and not likely to change. To me, it is like someone having a campsite on public property, like a national forest. The land is public, but the camper, tent, grills, chairs, hammocks, etc, are all private property. Those owners of the property can allow (or disallow) anyone to use it. It can be a big gathering point for anyone who shows up, or limited to a family, church group, or any other association. If someone shows up who is not invited, you can ask them to leave, and if they don't, the rangers will help out with their removal. You don't have to put up with drunks in your area if you are having a Sunday school social. And you don't have to put up with preachers if you are having a biker get together (unless that is what you want).
    K6LPM and W4ZGC like this.
  3. VK4HAT

    VK4HAT Ham Member QRZ Page

    I do not see this as a property rights issue, the point is, you give away certain rights when you become a ham, namely, you give away the right to OWN a frequency. If property rights are > community access to shared spectrum, then there is nothing stopping anyone from staking their claim to the ownership of any frequency in perpetuity.

    Secondly, we give away the right to profit from our use of shared spectrum. Charging for access to a repeater, or banning people who do not want to pay, or club only repeaters is more or less profiting from the use of shared spectrum. People lost their minds in the youtube bunch thread because they are commercializing their hobby with the sole purpose of making profit. Seems to me that setting up a repeater with the sole purpose of restricting access on a pay to play basis is much much worse than the youtube bunch because it takes away access to spectrum that ALL hams own, not just the repeater maintainer.

    Thirdly, community. Ham radio is a social hobby, pay to play repeaters do not seem very community orientated, its just another attempt to slice and dice the spectrum to keep the lessers out. I get that this is a very American phenomena and unlikely to change, but that does mean its in the spirit of ham radio. This spirit of ham radio is you join the club that runs the repeater because you want to be a good member of the ham radio community, you do not charge people to use spectrum they have every right to be using under their license.
    WA1GXC and KN4LGM like this.
  4. K7JEM

    K7JEM Ham Member QRZ Page

    Except in the USA repeaters are granted "de-facto" ownership of the frequency pair in a certain geographic area, provided they are properly coordinated. This has also been the case for over 40 years, so nothing new. The FCC grants some special privileges to repeaters, probably because they require a lot of monetary outlay, and cannot QSY. Again, this should be obvious. You can't set up a beacon on a repeater input or output channel, you can't use those frequencies for simplex, if they interfere. You can't put up another repeater on a coordinated channel. These same privileges do not extend to normal HF frequencies, or really any other frequencies where people are free to QSY.
    Most of these closed repeaters are not making a "profit" any more than any other club makes a profit when people join their club. It is not "commercializing" since usage of the ham frequencies is not commercial, any funds collected go to maintenance or purchase of equipment, not into someone's pocket. It's not really "pay to play", it's more like "we have a certain community that we support, and those members will also support us".
    Again, in the USA this is totally legal, ethical, and has been going on for virtually forever. Americans value the right to be able to associate with people they want to associate with, and exclude those that do not have the same ideals. It's just that simple. If I want a repeater that doesn't have foul language, racist banter, and stupid comments on it, I should be allowed to associate with people that have the same ideas. We (as Americans) have never been required to associate with those that we don't choose to associate with. Since a repeater has no ability to "spin the dial" to move away from such things, the FCC has rightly said that repeater owners have the privilege of setting rules for operation, and to allow or exclude anyone, within reason.
  5. KP4SX

    KP4SX Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    That doesn't make sense. I don't have the right to OWN a frequency and I never did before becoming a ham either.
    KA0HCP likes this.
  6. W3WN

    W3WN Ham Member QRZ Page

    Don't worry about it. Rob's rant presumes rights & facts not in evidence.
  7. KI4POT

    KI4POT Ham Member QRZ Page

    Gee, I go away to enjoy some time with the family (went to see The Lost Colony in OBX last night) and to do some fishing this morning and completely missed the fun. :)

    Everyone else pretty much covered the points I was going to raise...except our repeater frequencies and processes in the US assume cooperation among hams to only use frequencies approved for repeater use AND those allocated to repeater owners by governing bodies. So, for the duration of the "allocation" the repeater own does have some manner of "ownership" of the frequency pairs.

    And to reiterate, I'm not crazy about the idea of closed repeaters, but I'm not putting up the resources to build and manage a repeater, so I have little say in the matter (aside from the fact I don't use them, open or not). Hate the game, not the player. :)

  8. VK4HAT

    VK4HAT Ham Member QRZ Page

    Its all in good fun Chris :) Some of us can agree to disagree. Some just want to troll to be a troll LOL
    KI4POT likes this.
  9. W2AI

    W2AI QRZ Lifetime Member #240 Platinum Subscriber Life Member QRZ Page

    This thread is in dire need of entertainment. Mainly, dancing girls:rolleyes:
    AD5HR, KA0HCP and K6LPM like this.
  10. W2AI

    W2AI QRZ Lifetime Member #240 Platinum Subscriber Life Member QRZ Page

    W2AI 's rule of everyday living:
    "If it don't pay the bills; it's not important".
    W0FS likes this.

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