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Type Acceptance

Discussion in 'Ham Radio Discussions' started by KW5B, Dec 26, 2011.

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  1. KW5B

    KW5B Ham Member QRZ Page

    I read a lot of experts on this forum talking about the Chinese imports and wondering if they are type excepted for Ham Radio use. Ham radio's do not require type acceptance. Either for a commercially bought rig or home brew. It would be a little hard for a ham to build his own equipment if type acceptance was required. Ham's are required to police their own community. Ham radio rigs are required to operate according to accepted standards of the ham radio community.

    If a Ham radio operator buys a piece of gear from the Chinese or anywhere else it is up to the operator to assure that piece of gear operates correctly according to the accepted standards. Which are not always written down anywhere, you learn them by being a part of the community. By reading current literature and listening to your elders.

    Ham's are not supposed to be just appliance operators.

    Larry-KW5B
     
  2. WB2WIK

    WB2WIK Platinum Subscriber Platinum Subscriber QRZ Page

    There's no type acceptance for ham gear. However there is "certification" for anything that has an oscillator in it, including Chinese imported hand helds, and everything else commercially sold into the U.S. market.

    That does not preclude homebrewing equipment for personal use.

    There's also much stricter requirements for stuff that can transmit in the 27 MHz region, and stuff that can transmit in the commercial LMR bands, or the aviation band. They have stricter frequency tolerance and stability standards which don't apply to ham gear. So, if a rig (like some of the Chinese hand helds) is capable of transmitting outside the amateur bands (and some of them will), actual commercial certification is required. Some models have that.
     
  3. KW5B

    KW5B Ham Member QRZ Page

    There's no type acceptance for ham gear. However there is "certification" for anything that has an oscillator in it, including Chinese imported hand helds, and everything else commercially sold into the U.S. market.

    Does not apply to ham radio gear.

    Certification: Requires submittal of an application that includes a complete technical description of the product and a measurement report showing compliance with the FCC technical standards. Devices subject to certification include: low power transmitters such as cordless telephones, garage door opener controls, radio control toys, and security alarm systems, scanning receivers and superregenerative receivers; and, TV interface devices such as VCRs


    Certification: Requires submittal of an application that includes a complete technical description of the product and a measurement report showing compliance with the FCC technical standards. Devices subject to certification include: low power transmitters such as cordless telephones, garage door opener controls, radio control toys, and security alarm systems, scanning receivers and superregenerative receivers; and, TV interface devices such as VCRs.

    There's also much stricter requirements for stuff that can transmit in the 27 MHz region, and stuff that can transmit in the commercial LMR bands, or the aviation band. They have stricter frequency tolerance and stability standards which don't apply to ham gear. So, if a rig (like some of the Chinese hand helds) is capable of transmitting outside the amateur bands (and some of them will), actual commercial certification is required. Some models have that.
    NOT if the equipment is used by a ham operating as a ham. Type acceptance only required for "commercial" services, fire, police, etc.


    Type Acceptance: Similar to certification, except that it typically applies to radio transmitter equipment that will be used in a licensed radio service. Devices subject to type acceptance include: land mobile transmitters such as cellular transmitters, or police, fire and business transmitters; transmitters used in the maritime and aeronautical safety services; and CB and other transmitters used in the Personal Radio Services. Amateur Radio transmitters do not require type acceptance although external HF power amplifiers and kits do require type acceptance.

    Notification: Requires submittal of an abbreviated application for equipment authorization, that does not include a measurement report, to the FCC. However, a measurement report showing compliance of the product with the FCC technical standards must be retained by the applicant and must be submitted upon request by the Commission. Devices subject to notification include: point-to-point microwave transmitters; AM, FM and TV Broadcast transmitters; certain microwave auxiliary broadcast transmitters; and, other receivers (except as noted elsewhere).

    Verification: Verification is a self-approval process where the applicant performs the necessary tests and verifies that they have been done on the device to be authorized and that the device is in compliance with the technical standards. Devices subject to verification include: business computer equipment (Class A); TV and FM receivers; and, non-consumer Industrial, Scientific and Medical Equipment. Verified equipment requires that a compliance label be affixed to the device as well as information included in the operating manual regarding the interference potential of the device. The wording for the compliance label and the information statement regarding interference problems is included in Part 15 of the FCC Rules. Verified devices must be uniquely identified with a brand name and/or model number that cannot be confused with other devices on the market. However, they may not be labeled with an FCC identifier or in a manner that could be confused with an FCC identifier.

    A Ham operating as a ham can use any gear he/she wishes, within the ham radio bands and within accepted standards. They can convert whatever they want to do same. Whether the gear was made to be Ham radio gear or not. The only type acceptance required for any Ham radio is on amplifiers and amplifier kits. These have to have 11 meters (CB) missing. And that means 10 meters also since it is easy to convert from 10 to 11. Even this gear can and is often modified by the individual Ham radio operator and the 10 meter operation is enabled. This is perfectly legal in the US.

    Ham Radio gear with the exception of amplifiers and amplifier kits is not type accepted. And all that the commercial manufacturer must do is use accepted methods to show that the gear operates as require and keep a piece of paper that says they performed the tests.

    Larry-KW5B
     
  4. KB2CRK

    KB2CRK Ham Member QRZ Page


    With all the back and forth on the Chinese handhelds, Most of them are type accepted for the commercial bands, this means narrow-band compliant. Yes they are legal for use in the ham bands.
     
  5. WB2WIK

    WB2WIK Platinum Subscriber Platinum Subscriber QRZ Page

    Larry, in your overview, the paragraph that covered Part 15 compliance, which is this one:

    ...does require the Chinese hand helds and almost all other modern digital amateur gear to be certified because they do have scanning receivers. This is not exempt for amateur gear, at all, and has nothing to do with amateur radio "transmitters." It's the receiver part that's being certified.
     
  6. W5WN

    W5WN QRZ Lifetime Member #379 Platinum Subscriber Life Member QRZ Page

    It appears that most are just appliance operators. Not many hams using homebrew rigs anymore. That's probably a good thing. I can't imagine what the bands would sound like if everyone had to make their own rigs with the experience level required to get a license these days.
     
  7. KW5B

    KW5B Ham Member QRZ Page

    WB2WIK,

    On the surface you may have a point, but I was quoting a synopsis of part 15 not the actual document itself. And I very much suspect that equipment used in the Ham Bands does not have to be certified. Although it may have recently changed, those Chinese hand held radios are not type accepted, nor certified. Even with the scanning receivers. While many fire and police are already using them, especially the smaller communities they are not type accepted for fire or police. If you were a volunteer firefighter would you really care?

    My point: Amateur radio can use any radio gear and has no restrictions except for very narrow and rare occasions. The only one I KNOW is the restriction on 10 meter equipment and that was caused by illegal use by Chicken Banders. There is a requirement for certification of certain scanners. I rather doubt that extends to Ham Radio gear. If you know the applicable text in part 15 please publish.

    If you go to a website of a company that makes gear for Amateurs and also Commercial you'll find they state that the Amateur stuff is not type certified for Commercial. ie no paperwork, no type certification for gear sold as for Ham use. Even though the gear may be similar, EXCEPT for the model number.

    Amateurs can and often do use gear with various paperwork,

    Two reasons"

    first a Amateur radio license holder can manufacturer and sell gear that scans. And it does not have any paperwork associated with it. Amateurs can do nearly anything so long as they stay within the band plan, use good construction practices. Their equipment meets accepted standards and they use no code that cannot be easily decoded by the Feds.

    Second: the Chinese hand helds are rip-offs of Japanese equipment. They start applying for paperwork and type acceptance and certification they will be between a rock and a hard place.

    And last even in the clear case where an amateur amplifier or amplifier kit must be type certified for the manufacturer to make and sell the equipment, it does NOT have to be type certified for the amateur to use it. It is perfectly legal for a ham to use an high power amplifier that will transmit on 10 meters. again so long as the band plan is followed. It is even legal for a ham to own and use a 10,000 watt transmitter.......so long as they don't transmit with more than the legal power limit which varies somewhat.

    ljg
     
  8. KA0HCP

    KA0HCP XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    Let us remember that ready made radios were offered for sale in the very first edition of QST in 1915!
     
  9. K9STH

    K9STH Ham Member QRZ Page

    WIK and 5B:

    Certification is required for all commercially built receivers that can receive frequencies ABOVE 30 MHz and BELOW 960 MHz. Receivers capable of receiving frequencies only below 30 MHz are exempted as are receivers only capable of receiving frequencies above 960 MHz. The exception is for receivers made for use only in the 47 CFR Part 95 Subpart D Radio Service a.k.a. "CB". This exemption is specified in 47 CFR Part 15 Section 15.101(b). There are no certification requirements for transmitters manufactured for use only on amateur radio frequencies.

    Certification is required for commercially manufactured external r.f. amplifiers capable of operation below 144 MHz. The certification requirements are specified in 47 CFR Part 97 Section 97.313 and 47 CFR Part 97 Section 97.315. Home brew and amplifiers converted by individual licensed amateur radio operators are not subject to certification.

    There are no other certification requirements for amateur radio equipment. However, all amateur radio transmitters are required to meet the technical specifications in 47 CFR Part 97 Section 97.307. Those requirements must be met no matter what the source of the equipment.

    Glen, K9STH
     
  10. WB2WIK

    WB2WIK Platinum Subscriber Platinum Subscriber QRZ Page

    I believe that's exactly right. Often, ham gear manufacturers advertise new rigs stating "for sale pending FCC certification" (you see this all the time with new product introductions) and the certification they're referring to is for the receivers.

    Now, why it takes so long is another issue! In my experience, this really doesn't take long at all. I used to run a NVLAP accredited EMC lab here in southern California and we were approved to certify to many 47 CFR parts, including Parts 15, 95 and 97 (for amplifiers) as well as 68 for telco gear, etc. We were on the FCC list of accredited labs for many years (we sold the lab off five years ago when we moved to a new location that just didn't have room for the 10m anechoic chamber), and once our reports were completed and submitted, "grants" were almost always issued within just a few weeks; it never took months or years.

    I suspect when I see "pending certification" means they really didn't do any of the testing yet, or if they did, the gear failed and they had to make changes and do it again.
     
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